X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4946179 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:13:37 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=U9wuZSlSMY3aik9KqaSP/EoGyTKg6cCJNhwFoFxatSU= c=1 sm=0 a=A1w-ut_j4ekA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=ANyMnvPOwBO1RYBptlAA:9 a=71lNnNMeqwBMQYBkhjQA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=4ojOVHWO38rpidEMJ8IA:9 a=XcuJG-mr5La39V2RYrMA:7 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:51106] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 71/33-11015-DE007AD4; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:13:01 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:12:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01CBFA8C.81C2E4F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CBFA8C.81C2E4F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, I must confess that sometimes my aviation pursuit gets a bit more = interesting that I would prefer. But, as they say you live and learn - = provided you live of course. Well, having such incidents such as you = and I have had early on - it sort of clues you in that flying is NOT = inherently SAFE, so the decision to continue must mean we have a passion = for it{:>)! Ed From: Mark Steitle=20 Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:56 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of = the BIG IRON Ed, =20 Yes, you've lived an interesting life (someone's obviously looking out = for you). I too had a total engine failure shortly before my checkride. = Lucky for me that my instructor was in the right seat. We landed = against the traffic at Robert Mueller Airportn (Austin's main airport), = shutting down the airport until we rolled off the runway with oil = pouring from the engine. Firetrucks arrived shortly thereafter, but no = fire. Gotta love those Lycomings (...not).=20 Mark=20 On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Ed Anderson = wrote: Actually, Mark, I think the few minutes I spent getting my Gliders = Endorsement back in 1964 helped a bit - even though a long time ago. At = least that convinced no engine didn't mean you immediately fell out of = the sky {:>). But, even back then long before my rotary and = experimental aircraft days, I was - lets say being flight challenged. The last day of my glider training, I was running late getting to the = air field and they were due to haul the glider back to its distant = homebase. I arrived just as they were preparing to disassembly it for = trailering back. The instructor was not happy at all about having to = delay the process (I guess after a week in Cordell OK, he wanted to get = back to Mama). In any case, he told me not to bother pre-flighting the glider and to = hop in and we would hook up the tow plane and launch. Well, we did - = got up to a bit above pattern altitude and cut loose. Well, the = instructor in the back seat berated me all around the pattern about = using too much rudder. So I knew he was not going to endorse my glider = rating. So sweating and a bit disappointed, I managed to "rudder" the = glider onto final approach. As we rolled out several people were = running toward us. It turns out the aileron locks had been installed (and not doing a = preflight we obiviously missed them) and so I had flown the glider = without ailerons and that was why I had to use so much rudder to get = some bank. I was later told that had I let the wings get sufficiently = low, there was no way the rudder could have pulled the wings back = level!! =20 The somewhat shaken instructor decided that if I could fly a glider = without ailerons - then I merited my glider endorsement. Did I ever tell you about the engine-out landing I experience one = flight before my scheduled solo - or about the tailwheel falling off as = I taxied out for my 1st solo flight - remind me to tell you sometime = {:>) Ed From: Mark Steitle=20 Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:17 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON Ed, =20 Oh, so that's where you learned your excellent engine-out glide = skills. =20 Mark On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Ed Anderson = wrote: Ah, Yes, Many a take off in the B-52 fortress ( and one in the KC-135 tanker) = on a Hot Oklahoma day took a lot of water being injected into the = engines to give sufficient thrust to get airborne. In fact, failure of = the water injection system on certain hot days required aborting the = take off. Ed From: Lehanover@aol.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:07 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON Well done Mr. Anderson.=20 That 50/50 mixture was also ingested by big radials in military = power for cooling and anti detonation. Same for early pure jets where it was added to add mass to the = exhaust flow on take off. Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 4/13/2011 10:23:40 A.M. Atlantic Daylight Time, = eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes: I came across a study looking at ways to cool aircraft racing = engines (for the BIG iron), makes some interesting reading as they look = at EVERY way to cool a race engine including sacrificial boiling off = (phase change) of an expendable liquid as well as spray bar cooling, = etc. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CBFA8C.81C2E4F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, I must confess that sometimes my aviation = pursuit=20 gets a bit more interesting that I would prefer.  But, as they say = you live=20 and learn - provided you live of course.  Well,  having such = incidents=20 such as you and I have had early on - it sort of clues you in that = flying is NOT=20 inherently SAFE, so the decision to continue must mean we have a passion = for=20 it{:>)!
 
Ed

Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:56 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: = Cooling=20 of the BIG IRON

Ed, =20

Yes, you've lived an interesting life (someone's obviously looking = out for=20 you).  I too had a total engine failure shortly before my = checkride.=20  Lucky for me that my instructor was in the right seat.  We = landed=20 against the traffic at Robert Mueller Airportn (Austin's main airport), = shutting=20 down the airport until we rolled off the runway with oil pouring from = the=20 engine.  Firetrucks arrived shortly thereafter, but no fire. =  Gotta=20 love those Lycomings (...not). 

Mark 

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:
Actually, Mark, I think the few minutes I = spent=20 getting my Gliders Endorsement back in 1964 helped a bit - even though = a long=20 time ago.  At least that convinced no engine didn't mean you = immediately=20 fell out of the sky {:>).  But, even back then long before my = rotary=20 and experimental aircraft days, I was - lets say being=20 flight challenged.
 
The last day of my glider training, I was = running late=20 getting to the air field and they were due to haul the glider back to = its=20 distant homebase.  I arrived just as they were preparing to = disassembly=20 it for trailering back.  The instructor was not happy at all = about having=20 to delay the process (I guess after a week in Cordell OK, he wanted to = get=20 back to Mama).
 
In any case, he told me not to bother = pre-flighting the=20 glider and to hop in and we would hook up the tow plane and = launch. =20 Well, we did - got up to a bit above pattern altitude and cut = loose. =20 Well, the instructor in the back seat berated me all around the = pattern about=20 using too much rudder.  So I knew he was not going to endorse my = glider=20 rating.  So sweating and a bit disappointed, I managed to = "rudder" the=20 glider onto final approach.  As we rolled out several people were = running=20 toward us.
 
It turns out the aileron locks had been = installed (and=20 not doing a preflight we obiviously missed them) and so I had flown = the glider=20 without ailerons and that was why I had to use so much rudder to get = some=20 bank.  I was later told that had I let the wings get sufficiently = low,=20 there was no way the rudder could have pulled the wings back = level!! =20
 
The somewhat shaken instructor decided that if = I could=20 fly a glider without ailerons - then I merited my glider=20 endorsement.
 
Did I ever tell you about the engine-out=20 landing I experience one flight before my scheduled solo - = or about=20 the  tailwheel falling off as I taxied out for my 1st solo flight = -=20 remind me to tell you sometime {:>)
 
Ed

Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:17 AM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG = IRON

Ed, =20

Oh, so that's where you learned your excellent engine-out glide = skills.=20  

Mark

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Ah, Yes,
 
Many a take off in the B-52 fortress ( and one = in the=20 KC-135 tanker) on a Hot Oklahoma day took a lot of water being = injected into=20 the engines to give sufficient thrust to get airborne.  In = fact,=20 failure of the water injection system on certain hot days required = aborting=20 the take off.
 
Ed

Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:07 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG=20 IRON

Well done Mr. Anderson.
 
That 50/50 mixture was also ingested by big radials in military = power=20 for cooling and anti detonation.
 
Same for early pure jets where it was added to add mass to the = exhaust=20 flow on take off.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
In a message dated 4/13/2011 10:23:40 A.M. Atlantic Daylight = Time, eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes:
I came across a study looking at ways to = cool=20 aircraft racing engines (for the BIG iron), makes some interesting = reading=20 as they look at EVERY way to cool a race engine including = sacrificial=20 boiling off (phase change) of an expendable liquid as well as = spray bar=20 cooling, etc.
 


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