X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4946157 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 09:48:20 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.122; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ToWar1fa9ljTHbeJIRNQycBnYxCRNi5M/11QAwRcJ6A= c=1 sm=0 a=Aj1ODuapWSUA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=vtsnAKmxR5H9UNw2a00A:9 a=a3LW4wfLpq2-tGY6OP0A:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=IsNUgLcKojvA4fA2jC4A:9 a=_zbHrqOOdqglw0yajsUA:7 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:50603] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id AB/40-29678-FFAF6AD4; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:47:44 +0000 Message-ID: <68CBA5FB0F7F4A698B58F0975BCE7329@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 09:47:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01CBFA88.F9590C50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CBFA88.F9590C50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually, Mark, I think the few minutes I spent getting my Gliders = Endorsement back in 1964 helped a bit - even though a long time ago. At = least that convinced no engine didn't mean you immediately fell out of = the sky {:>). But, even back then long before my rotary and = experimental aircraft days, I was - lets say being flight challenged. The last day of my glider training, I was running late getting to the = air field and they were due to haul the glider back to its distant = homebase. I arrived just as they were preparing to disassembly it for = trailering back. The instructor was not happy at all about having to = delay the process (I guess after a week in Cordell OK, he wanted to get = back to Mama). In any case, he told me not to bother pre-flighting the glider and to = hop in and we would hook up the tow plane and launch. Well, we did - = got up to a bit above pattern altitude and cut loose. Well, the = instructor in the back seat berated me all around the pattern about = using too much rudder. So I knew he was not going to endorse my glider = rating. So sweating and a bit disappointed, I managed to "rudder" the = glider onto final approach. As we rolled out several people were = running toward us. It turns out the aileron locks had been installed (and not doing a = preflight we obiviously missed them) and so I had flown the glider = without ailerons and that was why I had to use so much rudder to get = some bank. I was later told that had I let the wings get sufficiently = low, there was no way the rudder could have pulled the wings back = level!! =20 The somewhat shaken instructor decided that if I could fly a glider = without ailerons - then I merited my glider endorsement. Did I ever tell you about the engine-out landing I experience one flight = before my scheduled solo - or about the tailwheel falling off as I = taxied out for my 1st solo flight - remind me to tell you sometime {:>) Ed From: Mark Steitle=20 Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:17 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON Ed, =20 Oh, so that's where you learned your excellent engine-out glide skills. = Mark On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Ed Anderson = wrote: Ah, Yes, Many a take off in the B-52 fortress ( and one in the KC-135 tanker) = on a Hot Oklahoma day took a lot of water being injected into the = engines to give sufficient thrust to get airborne. In fact, failure of = the water injection system on certain hot days required aborting the = take off. Ed From: Lehanover@aol.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:07 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON Well done Mr. Anderson.=20 That 50/50 mixture was also ingested by big radials in military power = for cooling and anti detonation. Same for early pure jets where it was added to add mass to the exhaust = flow on take off. Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 4/13/2011 10:23:40 A.M. Atlantic Daylight Time, = eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes: I came across a study looking at ways to cool aircraft racing = engines (for the BIG iron), makes some interesting reading as they look = at EVERY way to cool a race engine including sacrificial boiling off = (phase change) of an expendable liquid as well as spray bar cooling, = etc. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CBFA88.F9590C50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Actually, Mark, I think the few minutes I = spent=20 getting my Gliders Endorsement back in 1964 helped a bit - even though a = long=20 time ago.  At least that convinced no engine didn't mean you = immediately=20 fell out of the sky {:>).  But, even back then long before my = rotary and=20 experimental aircraft days, I was - lets say being=20 flight challenged.
 
The last day of my glider training, I was = running late=20 getting to the air field and they were due to haul the glider back to = its=20 distant homebase.  I arrived just as they were preparing to = disassembly it=20 for trailering back.  The instructor was not happy at all about = having to=20 delay the process (I guess after a week in Cordell OK, he wanted to get = back to=20 Mama).
 
In any case, he told me not to bother = pre-flighting the=20 glider and to hop in and we would hook up the tow plane and = launch.  Well,=20 we did - got up to a bit above pattern altitude and cut loose.  = Well, the=20 instructor in the back seat berated me all around the pattern about = using too=20 much rudder.  So I knew he was not going to endorse my glider = rating. =20 So sweating and a bit disappointed, I managed to "rudder" the glider = onto final=20 approach.  As we rolled out several people were running toward=20 us.
 
It turns out the aileron locks had been = installed (and not=20 doing a preflight we obiviously missed them) and so I had flown the = glider=20 without ailerons and that was why I had to use so much rudder to get = some=20 bank.  I was later told that had I let the wings get sufficiently = low,=20 there was no way the rudder could have pulled the wings back = level!! =20
 
The somewhat shaken instructor decided that if I = could fly=20 a glider without ailerons - then I merited my glider = endorsement.
 
Did I ever tell you about the engine-out=20 landing I experience one flight before my scheduled solo - or = about=20 the  tailwheel falling off as I taxied out for my 1st solo flight - = remind=20 me to tell you sometime {:>)
 
Ed

Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:17 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG = IRON

Ed, =20

Oh, so that's where you learned your excellent engine-out glide = skills.=20  

Mark

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:
Ah, Yes,
 
Many a take off in the B-52 fortress ( and one in = the KC-135=20 tanker) on a Hot Oklahoma day took a lot of water being injected into = the=20 engines to give sufficient thrust to get airborne.  In fact, = failure of=20 the water injection system on certain hot days required aborting the = take=20 off.
 
Ed

Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:07 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG = IRON

Well done Mr. Anderson.
 
That 50/50 mixture was also ingested by big radials in military = power for=20 cooling and anti detonation.
 
Same for early pure jets where it was added to add mass to the = exhaust=20 flow on take off.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
In a message dated 4/13/2011 10:23:40 A.M. Atlantic Daylight = Time, eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes:
I came across a study looking at ways to = cool aircraft=20 racing engines (for the BIG iron), makes some interesting reading as = they=20 look at EVERY way to cool a race engine including sacrificial = boiling off=20 (phase change) of an expendable liquid as well as spray bar cooling, = etc.
 

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