X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.145] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4943825 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:23:17 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.145; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-da03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p3CBMUEF002775 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:22:30 -0400 Received: from Lehanover@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.f9b.edc52b6 (55765) for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:22:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-dc02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-dc02.mx.aol.com [205.188.170.2]) by cia-md05.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD056-d3884da435f1365; Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:22:25 -0400 Received: from webmail-d132 (webmail-d132.sim.aol.com [149.174.18.22]) by smtprly-dc02.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDC028-d3884da435f1365; Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:22:25 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Help with timing Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:22:24 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 173.88.24.45 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: lehanover@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CDC71B087F092D_27F8_3ED7_webmail-d132.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33490-STANDARD Received: from 173.88.24.45 by webmail-d132.sysops.aol.com (149.174.18.22) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:22:24 -0400 Message-Id: <8CDC71B0870C0E1-27F8-2138@webmail-d132.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Lehanover@aol.com ----------MB_8CDC71B087F092D_27F8_3ED7_webmail-d132.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I connected a timing light, and spotted the marks show while cranking the= engine. This isn't a picture from the timing light strobe. I positioned= it manually and took the picture with my phone. When cranking, the pointe= r split the difference between the line and the first dot almost perfectly= . If I have this straight, the spark is lighting about 5* before the rotor= flattens out against the spark plugs, which is top dead center, is transl= ated as 5* BTDC. My goal was to move the VR pickup to where I would get 25= * of timing advance that Lynn recommends without any input from the ECU.= =20 =20 Question: Is it worth the effort of moving the mount to get 25* of advance= vs 5*?=20 This method applies to starting new or rebuilt engines that have accurate= timing marks on the front pulley. It is good enough to drop in a distribu= tor or crank angle sensor and start the engine. Then you could time the en= gine with a timing light.=20 It does not produce an accurate depiction of TDC. It will give you a point= that is from 4 to 9 degrees BTDC, Before Top Dead Center. This is because= the plugs are mounted higher or lower from year to year, and the distance= between the plugs is also different. Probably done so the cars can be sol= d in California.=20 Use the minimum volume procedure. Squirt some thick oil into number one ho= using through the trailing plug hole. The Housing furthest from the PSRU= and the upper plug hole. Turn the engine over a few times to spread the= oil out. Bring the crank to a position that you suspect is near TDC. The mark you have now is close. Screw some food quality vinyl hose into th= e plug hole. Use silicone if it seals poorly. Stick the other end in your= mouth. Put your tounge over the hose end. Rock the engine back and forth. That null where neither suction nor pressu= re is felt, is actual TDC. Notice that the null may include about a 1/4" of flywheel movement, Maybe= less. Actual TDC is the center of that null distance. You can also stick= the hose in a glass of water. Same idea. Or, drape the hose into a "U" sh= ape (Monometer) and put in some ATF and watch the lack of movement as the= null. Same idea. You can get inside of one degree of angle this way. Prob= ably more accurate than the factory pulley mark. Use marks on the starter ring teeth for TDC and any advance you want to ru= n. Try 20 to 24 for low octane car gas. If you have to run 110 or high oct= ane car gas then 26 to 27 degrees.=20 That 20 degrees and low octane car gas works fine up to 9,000 RPM. Should= be plenty to get started. Once the dyno is flying you could dial in a bit= more and watch the Temps, speed and EGTs. (1600 degrees). Lynn E. Hanover -----Original Message----- From: Ernest Christley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, Apr 11, 2011 8:46 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Help with timing I'm using an EDIS-4 system for ignition. A robust system that provides for= a limp-home mode if the ECU decides that it is tired someday. It uses a= 36-1 gear, so each tooth represents 10 degrees. Today, I began the proces= s of verifying that the spark happens when I want it to happen.=20 =20 I used the "spot the apex seals through the spark plug holes, then split= the difference" method to mark a rough approximation of TDC. I put a silv= er line on the timing tooth gear, following the line of the stock pointer.= The mark just happened to fall in the space vacated by the missing tooth.= As the engine rotates, it moves to the left.=20 =20 I connected a timing light, and spotted the marks show while cranking the= engine. This isn't a picture from the timing light strobe. I positioned= it manually and took the picture with my phone. When cranking, the pointe= r split the difference between the line and the first dot almost perfectly= . If I have this straight, the spark is lighting about 5* before the rotor= flattens out against the spark plugs, which is top dead center, is transl= ated as 5* BTDC. My goal was to move the VR pickup to where I would get 25= * of timing advance that Lynn recommends without any input from the ECU.= =20 =20 Question: Is it worth the effort of moving the mount to get 25* of advance= vs 5*?=20 -- omepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ rchive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html ----------MB_8CDC71B087F092D_27F8_3ED7_webmail-d132.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
I con= nected a timing light, and spotted the marks show while cranking the engin= e. This isn't a picture from the timing light strobe. I positioned it manu= ally and took the picture with my phone. When cranking, the pointer split= the difference between the line and the first dot almost perfectly. If I= have this straight, the spark is lighting about 5* before the rotor flatt= ens out against the spark plugs, which is top dead center, is translated= as 5* BTDC. My goal was to move the VR pickup to where I would get 25* of= timing advance that Lynn recommends without any input from the ECU. =
 
Question: Is it worth the effort of moving the mount to get 25* of advance= vs 5*? 

This method applies to starting new or rebuilt engines that have accurate= timing marks on the front pulley. It is good enough to drop in a distribu= tor or crank angle sensor and start the engine. Then you could time the en= gine with a timing light.
 
It does not produce an accurate depiction of TDC. It will give you a= point that is from 4 to 9 degrees BTDC, Before Top Dead Center. This is= because the plugs are mounted higher or lower from year to year, and the= distance between the plugs is also different. Probably done so the cars= can be sold in California.
 
Use the minimum volume procedure. Squirt some thick oil into number= one housing through the trailing plug hole. The Housing furthest from the= PSRU and the upper plug hole. Turn the engine over a few times to spread= the oil out. Bring the crank to a position that you suspect is near TDC.<= /div>
 
The mark you have now is close. Screw some food quality vinyl hose in= to the plug hole. Use silicone if it seals poorly. Stick the other end in= your mouth. Put your tounge over the hose end.
Rock the engine back and forth. That null where neither suction nor= pressure is felt, is actual TDC.
Notice that the null may include about a 1/4" of flywheel movement,= Maybe less. Actual TDC is the center of that null distance. You can also= stick the hose in a glass of water. Same idea. Or, drape the hose into a= "U" shape (Monometer) and put in some ATF and watch the lack of movement= as the null. Same idea. You can get inside of one degree of angle this wa= y. Probably more accurate than the factory pulley mark.
 
Use marks on the starter ring teeth for TDC and any advance you want= to run. Try 20 to 24 for low octane car gas. If you have to run 110 or hi= gh octane car gas then 26 to 27 degrees.
 
That 20 degrees and low octane car gas works fine up to 9,000 RPM. Sh= ould be plenty to get started. Once the dyno is flying you could dial in= a bit more and watch the Temps, speed and EGTs. (1600 degrees).
 
Lynn E. Hanover


-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, Apr 11, 2011 8:46 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Help with timing

I'm using an EDIS-4 system for igniti= on. A robust system that provides for a limp-home mode if the ECU decides= that it is tired someday. It uses a 36-1 gear, so each tooth represents= 10 degrees. Today, I began the process of verifying that the spark happen= s when I want it to happen. 
 
I used the "spot the apex seals through the spark plug holes, then split= the difference" method to mark a rough approximation of TDC. I put a silv= er line on the timing tooth gear, following the line of the stock pointer.= The mark just happened to fall in the space vacated by the missing tooth.= As the engine rotates, it moves to the left. 
 
I connected a timing light, and spotted the marks show while cranking the= engine. This isn't a picture from the timing light strobe. I positioned= it manually and took the picture with my phone. When cranking, the pointe= r split the difference between the line and the first dot almost perfectly= . If I have this straight, the spark is lighting about 5* before the rotor= flattens out against the spark plugs, which is top dead center, is transl= ated as 5* BTDC. My goal was to move the VR pickup to where I would get 25= * of timing advance that Lynn recommends without any input from the ECU.&n= bsp;
 
Question: Is it worth the effort of moving the mount to get 25* of advance= vs 5*? 

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