X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [64.129.170.194] (HELO VIRCOM1.fcdata.private) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with ESMTP id 4891946 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 05 Mar 2011 10:01:03 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.129.170.194; envelope-from=cbarber@texasattorney.net Received: from FCD-MAIL06.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([fe80::697f:d6aa:b87:78d8]) by FCD-MAIL05.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([fe80::809d:a06e:5913:452e%15]) with mapi id 14.01.0270.001; Sat, 5 Mar 2011 08:56:34 -0600 From: Chris Barber To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Knock sensor and indicator Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Knock sensor and indicator Thread-Index: AQHL2zxqf044J+CFHUy7AFUFUNSHx5QeyChU Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 15:00:23 +0000 Message-ID: <2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D303573976A@FCD-MAIL06.FCDATA.PRIVATE> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [166.139.76.11] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D303573976AFCDMAIL06FCDATA_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D303573976AFCDMAIL06FCDATA_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nope, I have never been able to do such a sustained static high rpm runs. = All my high power test were for mere seconds, perhaps an entire minute on a= few occasions. The temps would not have allowed such length of time at hi= gh power with no real airflow. However, I have been able to let it idle on= the ramp in 100 degree weather for over an hour...but again, at idle only. Yes, I do have a three pound spring, thus low boost. I think I may have on= e weaker spring that I will likely install (1.5 lb spring) as to minimize t= urbo issues. As David stated, we often discussed flying without a turbo at= first. However, I did (and do) want to have it set up properly for turbo = as to know what to expect AND to not have to be as concerned about a major = change once/if certified. That is why I have not made the turbo waste gate= adjustable. I wanted the turbo set up, but at a boost that should minimiz= e issues. After reading about folks boosting past 25 lbs online (in non av= iation use), I figured 3 lbs would not be an issue. Also, the turbo substa= ntially quiets the beast, a fact appreciated by myself and more notably my = hangar neighbors. This plane has never flown. I have been too busy discovering failure modes= in the engine. I have gotten much better at it than I would have liked. = Even though some will use my examples to condemn the rotary, that, IMAO, wo= uld be misguided. These issues are/were created by me. I have, and contin= ue to learn. I joke about finding all the failure modes, but the reality i= s that I do know a LOT more about how the engine works and what to expect a= nd MUCH of the mystery of the engine is drifting away. The engine has lost= most of its "magic" and is now becoming, what I hope to call and "aircraft= engine"....a hopefully well tested machine. Just the fact that the idea o= f tearing open the engine to replace the apex seals, and soft parts since i= t is already open, does not cause any undue anxiety, to me, it a quantum le= ap forward. Now, it has been regulated to a task and not a chore. (I am a= guessin' y'all understand what I mean by that) I think my problems have stemmed from mostly mixture and timing issues. It= is my thought that the problems became somewhat circular. I had hard star= ting, so I would adjust to get it to start...then, it would run rough, so I= would adjust for better idle...then it may run poorly and or be hard to st= art, damage was done, thus aggravating the problem....ie, detonation, bent = seals....thus really hard starting etc. The problems would build on themse= lves. Also, these current issues are completely unrelated to some of my earlier p= roblems (unless you count my ignorance/ineptness). Most notably when I had= to rebuild following the failure of a brand new center iron when an inner = water gallery wall failed in the first hour. I know of know way to have pr= evented or prepared for that one. I do believe it to be an anomaly that I a= m happy about happening on the ground. Since I tend to post most informati= on as it happens in my quest for assistance and knowledge it may appear tha= t more is going on than from one who post seldom. I find y'all's input too= valuable not to post about it. Since I post often it may seem somewhat e= xaggerated in the uninformed mind My intercooler does not get any flow sitting on the ground, so that too is = possibly an issue but I do not think the major one. A related issue is tha= t I have had problems with my EGT readings on the EM2. I have mentioned th= at here before but since I have been buying new apex seals, purchasing new = EGT senders got pushed down one level. Perhaps I can get some on there way= today. What that means it that I have not been able to monitor EGT values= . I used mineral oil to break in the engine. After getting about ten hours o= n it I switched to Royal Purple pure synthetic and have been using that sin= ce. I think I addressed most issues that where mentioned. Thanks for the food = for thought. I hope to get to the hangar today after work to clean my work= area up before I crack open the engine, hopefully, tomorrow. As always thank for the constructive feedback. On some sights I would have= to don a flame suite if I posted looking for insight. While some of the st= uff can sting a bit (since I may have a tinge of feeling stupid), never, mo= re than it helps. Chris ________________________________ --_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D303573976AFCDMAIL06FCDATA_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Nope, I have never been able to do such a sustained static h= igh rpm runs.  All my high power test were for mere second= s, perhaps an entire minute on a few occasions.  The temps would = not have allowed such length of time at high power with no real airflow.  However, I have been able to let it idle on the ramp i= n 100 degree weather for over an hour...but again, at idle only.

 

Yes, I do have a three pound spring, thus low boost.  I think I may= have one weaker spring that I will likely install (1.5 lb spring) as = to minimize turbo issues.  As David stated, we often discussed flying = without a turbo at first.  However, I did (and do) want to have it set up properly for turbo as to know what to expect AN= D to not have to be as concerned about a major change once/if certified.&nb= sp; That is why I have not made the turbo waste gate adjus= table.  I wanted the turbo set up, but at a boost that should minimize issues.  After reading about folks boosting past=  25 lbs online (in non aviation use), I figured 3 lbs would not= be an issue.  Also, the turbo substantially quiets the beas= t, a fact appreciated by myself and more notably my hangar neighbors.  

 

This plane has never flown.  I have been too busy discovering failu= re modes in the engine.  I have gotten much better at it than I w= ould have liked.  Even though some will use my examples to cond= emn the rotary, that, IMAO, would be misguided.  These issues are/were created by me.  I have, and continue to learn.  = I joke about finding all the failure modes, but the reality is that I do kn= ow a LOT more about how the engine works and what to expect and MUCH of the= mystery of the engine is drifting away.  The engine has lost most of its "magic" and is now becoming, wha= t I hope to call and "aircraft engine"....a hopefully well t= ested machine.  Just the fact that the idea of tearing open the engine= to replace the apex seals, and soft parts since it is already open, does not cause any undue anxiety, to me, it a quantum leap forward.&= nbsp; Now, it has been regulated to a task and not a chore. (I am  a g= uessin' y'all understand what I mean by that)

 

I think my problems have stemmed from mostly mix= ture and timing issues.  It is my thought that the problems = became somewhat circular.  I had hard starting, so I wou= ld adjust to get it to start...then, it would run rough, so I would adjust for better idle...then it may run poorly and or be hard = to start, damage was done, thus aggravating the problem....ie= , detonation, bent seals....thus really hard starting etc. &nbs= p;The problems would build on themselves. 

 

Also, these current issues are completely unrelated t= o some of my earlier problems (unless you count my ignorance/ineptness).&nb= sp; Most notably when I had to rebuild following the fai= lure of a brand new center iron when an inner water gallery wall failed in the first hour.  I know of know way to have pr= evented or prepared for that one. I do believe it to be = an anomaly that I am happy about happening on the ground.  Since I tend to post most information as it happens in my quest for assistance and knowledge it may appear that = more is going on than from one who post seldom.  I find y'all's input too valuable not to post about it.   Si= nce I post often it may seem somewhat exaggerated in the uninformed mind

 

My intercooler does not get any flow sitting on the ground, so that too = is possibly an issue but I do not think the major one.  A related issu= e is that I have had problems with my EGT reading= s on the EM2.  I have mentioned that here before but since I have been buying= new apex seals, purchasing new EGT senders got p= ushed down one level.  Perhaps I can get some on th= ere way today.  What that means it that I have not been able to monitor EGT values.

 

I used mineral oil to break in the engine.  After getting about ten= hours on it I switched to Royal Purple pure synthetic and have been using = that since.

 

I think I addressed most issues that where mentioned.  Thanks for t= he food for thought.  I hope to get to the hangar today after work to = clean my work area up before I crack open the engine, hopefully, = tomorrow.

 

As always thank for the constructive feedback.  On some sights I wo= uld have to don a flame suite if I posted looking for insight. While some o= f the stuff can sting a bit (since I may have a tinge of feeling stupid), n= ever, more than it helps.

 

Chris

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