X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cpoproxy1-pub.bluehost.com ([69.89.21.11] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with SMTP id 4891905 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 05 Mar 2011 08:55:07 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.89.21.11; envelope-from=jslade@canardaviation.com Received: (qmail 18773 invoked by uid 0); 5 Mar 2011 13:54:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host296.hostmonster.com) (66.147.240.96) by cpoproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2011 13:54:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=canardaviation.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:X-Identified-User; b=aJlSVEQzb5jmNOXx4c7Erw2VesEk4biA4pOseHQXll/wFroc1QkfN7LiaoxxXIBrEf/ophB1mvtowHHTJK9ObQwsLi7WTVRp2o4qHWihKGCo5onjC/KEJ1lt6ShaIw2c; Received: from c-174-61-10-12.hsd1.fl.comcast.net ([174.61.10.12] helo=[192.168.1.4]) by host296.hostmonster.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PvrwE-00030K-Hs for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 05 Mar 2011 06:54:30 -0700 Message-ID: <4D72408C.9050004@canardaviation.com> Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 08:54:20 -0500 From: John Slade Reply-To: jslade@canardaviation.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.14) Gecko/20110221 Thunderbird/3.1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Knock sensor and indicator References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090801040303060406020200" X-Identified-User: {3339:host296.hostmonster.com:instanu1:canardaviation.com} {sentby:smtp auth 174.61.10.12 authed with jslade+canardaviation.com} This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090801040303060406020200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Perhaps too much ignition timing or mixture problems such as spending to much time at best >power mixture (1700+ f EGT) instead of richer than best power before leaning quickly to lean of peak EGT. Yes, possibly. I always run rich, especially during run-up and take-off. By running rich, I mean I turn the mixture knob to 2 or 3pm. My EC2 is adjusted as best I could, and seems to keep the mixture about right, - but I still turn it rich for high power ops. My EGT alarm is set at 1750, and I occasionally have to reset it and back off the throttle during climb. Perhaps I'm being too conservative here. Its been a while since I checked it, but I seem to recall intake temp (after the intercooler) being around 130 during climb. The airflow to my intercooler could/should be improved. It's possible that Chris is overdoing the static high power runs. I mostly did mine during high speed taxi tests and was always mindful of the temps. I think I read that Chris runs high power static for 15 mins at a time. I never ran full power static for more than a minute or two. No - I don't aggressively lean at cruise - I set the mixture at 12 and let the EC2 do it's thing. Besides - Chris hasn't reached cruise YET, so I doubt it's that. As you say - it has to be timing, mixture or intake temps, or a combination of the three, possibly combined with "destructive testing" on the ground (which I did in the air :). Chris - what oil are you using? I used Mobil dino oil during initial testing and Mobil 1 thereafter. Regards, John On 3/4/2011 11:39 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > John, > Chris is using Tracy's apex seals (2mm) which are fairly tough > and is only using > about 3 psi boost so any ideas on what is causing detonation > ?............Perhaps too > much ignition timing or mixture problems such as spending to much time > at best > power mixture (1700+ f EGT) instead of richer than best power before > leaning > quickly to lean of peak EGT..........What EGT temps do you routinely > see during > takeoff, climb and cruise ?..........Do you aggressively lean at > cruise ?............ > Thanks, > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* John Slade > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Fri, March 4, 2011 4:30:29 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Knock sensor and indicator > > On 3/4/2011 4:43 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > > engine runs reported by Chris at high manifold pressure, high > coolant temps and as you mentioned > > probably high intake temps with little or no airflow across the > intercooler............. > I did many, many engine runs and high speed taxi tests prior to > flight, often with the temps at the limits. On occasion I was able to > hear "pre-ignition" and back off the throttle. There was no sign of > damage to my seals - but mine are 3mm 'indestructible' seals from Tracy. > John Slade > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --------------090801040303060406020200 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Perhaps too much ignition timing or mixture problems such as spending to much time at best
>power mixture (1700+ f EGT) instead of richer than best power before leaning quickly to lean of peak EGT.
Yes, possibly. I always run rich, especially during run-up and take-off. By running rich, I mean I turn the mixture knob to 2 or 3pm. My EC2 is adjusted as best I could, and seems to keep the mixture about right,  - but I still turn it rich for high power ops. My EGT alarm is set at 1750, and I occasionally have to reset it and back off the throttle during climb. Perhaps I'm being too conservative here.

Its been a while since I checked it, but I seem to recall intake temp (after the intercooler) being around 130 during climb. The airflow to my intercooler could/should be improved.

It's possible that Chris is overdoing the static high power runs. I mostly did mine during high speed taxi tests and was always mindful of the temps. I think I read that Chris runs high power static for 15 mins at a time. I never ran full power static for more than a minute or two.

No - I don't aggressively lean at cruise - I set the mixture at 12 and let the EC2 do it's thing. Besides - Chris hasn't reached cruise YET, so I doubt it's that. As you say - it has to be timing, mixture or intake temps, or a combination of the three, possibly combined with "destructive testing" on the ground (which I did in the air :).

Chris - what oil are you using? I used Mobil dino oil during initial testing and Mobil 1 thereafter.

Regards,
John


On 3/4/2011 11:39 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
John,
     Chris is using Tracy's apex seals (2mm) which are fairly tough and is only using
about 3 psi boost so any ideas on what is causing detonation ?............Perhaps too 
much ignition timing or mixture problems such as spending to much time at best
power mixture (1700+ f EGT) instead of richer than best power before leaning
quickly to lean of peak EGT..........What EGT temps do you routinely see during
takeoff, climb and cruise ?..........Do you aggressively lean at cruise ?............
 
Thanks,  
 

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo



From: John Slade <jslade@canardaviation.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 4:30:29 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Knock sensor and indicator

On 3/4/2011 4:43 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
> engine runs reported by Chris at high manifold pressure, high coolant temps and as you mentioned
> probably high intake temps with little or no airflow across the intercooler.............
I did many, many engine runs and high speed taxi tests prior to flight, often with the temps at the limits. On occasion I was able to hear "pre-ignition" and back off the throttle. There was no sign of damage to my seals - but mine are 3mm 'indestructible' seals from Tracy.
John Slade

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:  http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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