X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ww0-f50.google.com ([74.125.82.50] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4558222 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 06 Nov 2010 20:30:23 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.50; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by wwb28 with SMTP id 28so745609wwb.7 for ; Sat, 06 Nov 2010 17:29:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=fP3GMfmMp/j6RynjLQKC6vQAXxDOBZLypnbU4cBz80g=; b=GbnL6ZsV7j5izv0f9+TOiQ0PC+TOuV1WSbxsUuR+AxZvjC+iggfhgo+fhr9w1UQ7Ii R84Mon80gygdx9XAksV9DAeEqq1okMzv6H+dutXO6R3pPAmyYtEJ3E9mWGbDOjZO/w3x 1wTNYPZF0TQYmOYi9DyWtRvWmPm4tWlpUK1Do= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=J65edpRXBqPZowDKy9IBSHdRlFlRGPoa/dkMVQpY/H92+JiwanQlqgAdS6/hTJcdrS kzVPdZGC7dEzujsetZoDG2DrlqHFpB+Dc99Qu/5xfCu8bXK1jQz2F56VsHFaSEsRXugq rudaG4WSZJbwlwCMaHgzXM06rq4Q2CRYLKIiA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.160.17 with SMTP id t17mr3449738wek.103.1289089785669; Sat, 06 Nov 2010 17:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.21.145 with HTTP; Sat, 6 Nov 2010 17:29:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 20:29:45 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: CT23ZypS-nD8_vrjwjQNkgSuikY Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since 2006 From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e65b6324c22a5304946b9a1c --0016e65b6324c22a5304946b9a1c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, either rich or lean. If the program is left of 12:00 it leans mix after stage and richens if knob is right of 12:00. Amount of change is proportional to how far from 12:00 position the program knob is. Tracy On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Ed Anderson wrot= e: > Ok, thanks for clarifying, Tracy. > > One other point that Bill and I bounced back and forth - can this Mode 6 > adjustment be used to lean and/or enrich the above staging mixture? In > other words, can you do both or can you only lean the above staging setti= ng? > > > Ed > > *From:* Tracy > *Sent:* Saturday, November 06, 2010 6:38 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since 2006 > > "*Here is a comment from Tracy back in April=94* > > ** > *Also note that Mode 6 will have NO effect on the mixture if you are belo= w > the staging point (which you no doubt were at a MP of 14") It only affec= ts > the mixture above the staging point, ie, when the SECONDARIES are on." > * > Wow, it sure is hard to describe this stuff. Actually I think Bill and = Ed > are both correct but here is the factor that may help explain things. I= t > IS true that the Mode 6 adjustment you make will make no REAL TIME change= if > you are below the staging point. But it WILL change the mixture above th= e > stage point EVEN IF you make it below the stage point. You will just not > see it until you advance the throttle above the stage point. ie, You ca= n > make the adjustment above or below. Which side to do it on is just a > personal choice. I do it on the low side then check it above, then repea= t > until I'm happy. Once you wrap your head around this it only takes less > than 2 minutes to do it. > > I'm looking at Steve's very interesting data on injector flow rates to se= e > if I can incorporate it in the EC2/3 algorithms and minimize the amount o= f > Mode 6 and MAP table tweaking needed. > > Tracy > > > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Ed Anderson wr= ote: > >> Pertaining to Steve's data and analysis and Tracy's comments about Mode >> 6 of the EC. >> >> I went back and read up on the Ec2 modes and found this statement which = I >> had apparently not paid sufficient attention to, but in light of Steve's >> data and findings, thought it might be pertinent to the discussions. Fr= om >> the EC2 instruction Manual: >> >> >> *01-07-06 update* >> *.* >> >> *Because the rotary has two injectors per rotor and they are staged (see >> Mode 7 for details on staging), it is possible that the mixture* >> >> *might be miss-matched differently when staged or not staged. You may >> have to match the EGTs once when the engine is staged* >> >> *(low power) and again when not staged (high power).* >> >> So it appears that the EC2 has had the capability to adjust the differen= t >> in flow rates across the staging event since at least *2006*. But, >> perhaps like many others, I was not certain what conditions would signi= fy >> this needed adjusting (until Steve's data and analysis) and therefore n= ever >> attempted any adjustment (my dumb!) - my philosophy being if it is work= ing >> well and you don't have a clue as to what/why you are adjusting somethin= g - >> then DON'T! {:>) >> >> The only "problem" (actually more of an irritant than a problem) I have >> ever encountered using the EC2 was the staging "bog" I would encounter w= hile >> operating on the ground which I finally eliminated. What I did was to >> enrich the fuel MAP in the 3-4 bins in the High MAP region that the engi= ne >> point jumped to after staging. This did solve my staging bob - but, af= ter >> reading the EC2 instructions again, I can see that if I probably should = have >> used Mode 6 to accomplish this as my adjustment was just for 3-4 bins an= d >> not all bins. >> >> Once again Tracy has addressed the need in the Ec2/3 - but, I just fail= ed >> to understand the function (and conditions) it might have addressed. No= w >> that Steve has clearly shown there is a high probability that adjusting = the >> staging flow rate will result in more accurate fuel totalizer values and >> other fuel factors, I can now see a reason to use mode 6. >> >> Thanks, guys - discussions on this list is generally always educational >> and helpful >> >> Ed >> >> >> Edward L. Anderson >> Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC >> 305 Reefton Road >> Weddington, NC 28104 >> http://www.andersonee.com >> http://www.eicommander.com >> > > --0016e65b6324c22a5304946b9a1c Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, either rich or lean.=A0 If the program is left of 12:00 it leans mix a= fter stage and richens if knob is right of 12:00.=A0=A0 Amount of change is= proportional to how far from 12:00 position the program knob is.

Tr= acy

On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Ed Anderson = <eanderso= n@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Ok, thanks for clarifying, Tracy.
=A0
One other point that Bill and I bounced back and = forth -=20 can this Mode 6 adjustment be used to lean=A0and/or enrich the above stagin= g=20 mixture?=A0 In other words, can you do both or can you only lean the above= =20 staging setting?
=A0
=A0
Ed

From: Tracy
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 6:38 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <= /div>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since=20 2006

"Here = is a comment=20 from Tracy back in April=94

=A0

Also note that Mode= =20 6 will have NO effect on the mixture if you are below the staging point (wh= ich=20 you no doubt were at a MP of 14")=A0 It only affects the mixture above= the=20 staging point, ie, when the SECONDARIES are on."

Wow, it sure is hard to describe this=20 stuff.=A0=A0 Actually I think Bill and Ed are both correct but here is the= =20 factor that may help explain things.=A0=A0 It IS true that the Mode 6=20 adjustment you make will make no REAL TIME change if you are below the stag= ing=20 point.=A0 But it WILL change the mixture above the stage point EVEN IF you= =20 make it below the stage point.=A0 You will just not see it until you advanc= e=20 the throttle above the stage point.=A0=A0 ie, You can make the adjustment= =20 above or below. =A0 Which side to do it on is just a personal choice.=A0 I= =20 do it on the low side then check it above, then repeat until I'm happy.= =A0=20 Once you wrap your head around this it only takes less than 2 minutes to do= it.=20 =A0

I'm looking at Steve's very interesting data on injecto= r flow=20 rates to see if I can incorporate it in the EC2/3 algorithms and minimize t= he=20 amount of Mode 6 and MAP table tweaking needed.=20

Tracy


On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>=20 wrote:
Pertaining to Steve's data and analysis and= Tracy's=20 comments about Mode 6 of the EC.
=A0
I went back and read up on the Ec2 modes and fo= und this=20 statement which I had apparently not paid sufficient attention to, but in= =20 light of Steve's data and findings, thought it might be pertinent to = the=20 discussions.=A0 From the EC2 instruction Manual:
=A0

01-07-06=20 update

.= =20

Because the rotary has two injector= s per rotor=20 and they are staged (see Mode 7 for details on staging), it is possible t= hat=20 the mixture

might be mi= ss-matched=20 differently when staged or not staged. You may have to match the E= GTs=20 once when the engine is staged

(low power) and again when not staged (high=20 power).

So it appears that the EC2 has had the= capability=20 to adjust the different in flow rates across the staging event since at l= east=20 2006.=A0 But, perhaps like many others, I was not certain=A0 what= =20 conditions would signify this needed adjusting (until Steve's data=20 and=A0analysis) =A0and therefore never attempted any adjustment (my=20 dumb!) =A0- my philosophy being if it is working well and you don't h= ave a=20 clue as to what/why you are adjusting something - then DON'T!=20 {:>)

The only "problem" (actually= more of an irritant=20 than a problem) =A0I have ever encountered using the EC2 was the staging= =20 "bog" I would encounter while operating on the ground which I f= inally=20 eliminated.=A0 What I did=A0was to enrich the fuel MAP in the 3-4 bins=20 in the High MAP region that the engine point jumped to after=20 staging.=A0=A0 This did solve my staging bob - but, after reading the=20 EC2 instructions again, I can see that if I probably should have used Mod= e 6=20 to accomplish this as my adjustment was just for 3-4 bins and not all=20 bins.

Once again Tracy has addressed the nee= d in=20 the=A0 Ec2/3 - but, I just failed to understand the function (and=20 conditions) it might have addressed.=A0 Now that Steve has clearly shown= =20 there is a high probability that adjusting the staging flow rate will res= ult=20 in more accurate fuel totalizer values and other fuel =A0factors, I can n= ow=20 see a reason to use mode 6.

Thanks, guys - discussions on this lis= t is=20 generally=A0always educational and helpful

Ed

=A0

Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enter= prises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.co= m


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