X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4558179 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 06 Nov 2010 18:47:31 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=Inhw+Jdt7z1D3BivGPfn2aw54OvUEJw5lAn/booRZkE= c=1 sm=0 a=cmbZiRGqcF8A:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=r1ClD_H3AAAA:8 a=gGl_h3NWJZBZkrVm87QA:9 a=ICau23L-yLpLuOzQQdoA:7 a=OA3Gvyg68AWrkB-rZq1hpU0HHqcA:4 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=jen-Sr4bCEyFtWBc-9wA:9 a=_eU8prYmddc5cHAU0oYA:7 a=3x3HcTphb6Z5V7CJv3w8crMTRw4A:4 a=iVkDmfvjeKcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:54944] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 16/A0-13137-FDAD5DC4; Sat, 06 Nov 2010 22:46:56 +0000 Message-ID: <99AEF055B0644735B83B28AB300E7686@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since 2006 Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 18:46:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01CB7DE2.F0740F90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CB7DE2.F0740F90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, thanks for clarifying, Tracy. One other point that Bill and I bounced back and forth - can this Mode 6 = adjustment be used to lean and/or enrich the above staging mixture? In = other words, can you do both or can you only lean the above staging = setting? Ed From: Tracy=20 Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 6:38 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since 2006 "Here is a comment from Tracy back in April=94 Also note that Mode 6 will have NO effect on the mixture if you are = below the staging point (which you no doubt were at a MP of 14") It = only affects the mixture above the staging point, ie, when the = SECONDARIES are on." Wow, it sure is hard to describe this stuff. Actually I think Bill and = Ed are both correct but here is the factor that may help explain things. = It IS true that the Mode 6 adjustment you make will make no REAL TIME = change if you are below the staging point. But it WILL change the = mixture above the stage point EVEN IF you make it below the stage point. = You will just not see it until you advance the throttle above the stage = point. ie, You can make the adjustment above or below. Which side to = do it on is just a personal choice. I do it on the low side then check = it above, then repeat until I'm happy. Once you wrap your head around = this it only takes less than 2 minutes to do it. =20 I'm looking at Steve's very interesting data on injector flow rates to = see if I can incorporate it in the EC2/3 algorithms and minimize the = amount of Mode 6 and MAP table tweaking needed.=20 Tracy On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Ed Anderson = wrote: Pertaining to Steve's data and analysis and Tracy's comments about = Mode 6 of the EC. I went back and read up on the Ec2 modes and found this statement = which I had apparently not paid sufficient attention to, but in light of = Steve's data and findings, thought it might be pertinent to the = discussions. From the EC2 instruction Manual: 01-07-06 update .=20 Because the rotary has two injectors per rotor and they are staged = (see Mode 7 for details on staging), it is possible that the mixture might be miss-matched differently when staged or not staged. You may = have to match the EGTs once when the engine is staged (low power) and again when not staged (high power). So it appears that the EC2 has had the capability to adjust the = different in flow rates across the staging event since at least 2006. = But, perhaps like many others, I was not certain what conditions would = signify this needed adjusting (until Steve's data and analysis) and = therefore never attempted any adjustment (my dumb!) - my philosophy = being if it is working well and you don't have a clue as to what/why you = are adjusting something - then DON'T! {:>) The only "problem" (actually more of an irritant than a problem) I = have ever encountered using the EC2 was the staging "bog" I would = encounter while operating on the ground which I finally eliminated. = What I did was to enrich the fuel MAP in the 3-4 bins in the High MAP = region that the engine point jumped to after staging. This did solve = my staging bob - but, after reading the EC2 instructions again, I can = see that if I probably should have used Mode 6 to accomplish this as my = adjustment was just for 3-4 bins and not all bins. Once again Tracy has addressed the need in the Ec2/3 - but, I just = failed to understand the function (and conditions) it might have = addressed. Now that Steve has clearly shown there is a high probability = that adjusting the staging flow rate will result in more accurate fuel = totalizer values and other fuel factors, I can now see a reason to use = mode 6. Thanks, guys - discussions on this list is generally always = educational and helpful Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CB7DE2.F0740F90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok, thanks for clarifying, Tracy.
 
One other point that Bill and I bounced back and = forth -=20 can this Mode 6 adjustment be used to lean and/or enrich the above = staging=20 mixture?  In other words, can you do both or can you only lean the = above=20 staging setting?
 
 
Ed

From: Tracy
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 6:38 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since=20 2006

"Here is a = comment=20 from Tracy back in April=94

 

Also note = that Mode=20 6 will have NO effect on the mixture if you are below the staging point = (which=20 you no doubt were at a MP of 14")  It only affects the mixture = above the=20 staging point, ie, when the SECONDARIES are on."

Wow, it sure is hard to describe this=20 stuff.   Actually I think Bill and Ed are both correct but = here is the=20 factor that may help explain things.   It IS true that the = Mode 6=20 adjustment you make will make no REAL TIME change if you are below the = staging=20 point.  But it WILL change the mixture above the stage point EVEN = IF you=20 make it below the stage point.  You will just not see it until you = advance=20 the throttle above the stage point.   ie, You can make the = adjustment=20 above or below.   Which side to do it on is just a personal = choice.  I=20 do it on the low side then check it above, then repeat until I'm = happy. =20 Once you wrap your head around this it only takes less than 2 minutes to = do it.=20  

I'm looking at Steve's very interesting data on injector = flow=20 rates to see if I can incorporate it in the EC2/3 algorithms and = minimize the=20 amount of Mode 6 and MAP table tweaking needed.=20

Tracy


On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:
Pertaining to Steve's data and analysis and = Tracy's=20 comments about Mode 6 of the EC.
 
I went back and read up on the Ec2 modes and = found this=20 statement which I had apparently not paid sufficient attention to, but = in=20 light of Steve's data and findings, thought it might be pertinent to = the=20 discussions.  From the EC2 instruction Manual:
 

01-07-06=20 update

.=20

Because the rotary has two injectors = per rotor=20 and they are staged (see Mode 7 for details on staging), it is = possible that=20 the mixture

might be = miss-matched=20 differently when staged or not staged. You may have to match = the EGTs=20 once when the engine is staged

(low power) and again when not staged (high=20 power).

So it appears that the EC2 has had the = capability=20 to adjust the different in flow rates across the staging event since = at least=20 2006.  But, perhaps like many others, I was not = certain  what=20 conditions would signify this needed adjusting (until Steve's data=20 and analysis)  and therefore never attempted any adjustment = (my=20 dumb!)  - my philosophy being if it is working well and you don't = have a=20 clue as to what/why you are adjusting something - then DON'T!=20 {:>)

The only "problem" (actually more of an = irritant=20 than a problem)  I have ever encountered using the EC2 was the = staging=20 "bog" I would encounter while operating on the ground which I finally=20 eliminated.  What I did was to enrich the fuel MAP in the = 3-4 bins=20 in the High MAP region that the engine point jumped to after=20 staging.   This did solve my staging bob - but, after = reading the=20 EC2 instructions again, I can see that if I probably should have used = Mode 6=20 to accomplish this as my adjustment was just for 3-4 bins and not all=20 bins.

Once again Tracy has addressed the need = in=20 the  Ec2/3 - but, I just failed to understand the function (and=20 conditions) it might have addressed.  Now that Steve has clearly = shown=20 there is a high probability that adjusting the staging flow rate will = result=20 in more accurate fuel totalizer values and other fuel  factors, I = can now=20 see a reason to use mode 6.

Thanks, guys - discussions on this list = is=20 generally always educational and helpful

Ed

 

Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic = Enterprises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

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