X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ww0-f50.google.com ([74.125.82.50] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4558104 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 06 Nov 2010 18:38:51 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.50; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by wwb28 with SMTP id 28so700953wwb.7 for ; Sat, 06 Nov 2010 15:38:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=9drViAfaJLjTI1BawLiUrYxLn05X4l8JS4OBweKr8ZU=; b=ojfNP4P4+uvXD45rYs2/+H8JYTmRAJf6/B8qGZA81P9P0FI/Q0/JqcxUHRx+fTq8C7 zzO3Vr2tcDJ7QdG2A128Ua3cpFdo0z2l8iPEsKB1R3TIpgqb+BURUN2ydL2WfwxDf8ia JP8EsBTB5/RtSE3NBWcg6iPAt3kyoKFeQF9q0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=TOXWUHza9C0pqu6H7cvELQc2actHR/c31BCVnoouH0vYRHTCvBuFs8lXPyv9qu1ils 0aDX5io7I1KtRStzK0mHYuN/dBT4W0wf3V0SwlqWUWOrkIs7j8uC/yTbv1wHJqMdqyrw DEPkeJ76nksV3o5ZdWO0EG55Fp3AZNp5O7fZo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.11.201 with SMTP id 51mr2483757wex.72.1289083092466; Sat, 06 Nov 2010 15:38:12 -0700 (PDT) Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.21.145 with HTTP; Sat, 6 Nov 2010 15:38:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 18:38:12 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0TEIP_8fMhjPFbMiYwPolwelL-M Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Staging Adjustment in EC2 since 2006 From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c7bd1cffd3404946a0b71 --0016364c7bd1cffd3404946a0b71 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "*Here is a comment from Tracy back in April=94* * * *Also note that Mode 6 will have NO effect on the mixture if you are below the staging point (which you no doubt were at a MP of 14") It only affects the mixture above the staging point, ie, when the SECONDARIES are on." * Wow, it sure is hard to describe this stuff. Actually I think Bill and Ed are both correct but here is the factor that may help explain things. It IS true that the Mode 6 adjustment you make will make no REAL TIME change i= f you are below the staging point. But it WILL change the mixture above the stage point EVEN IF you make it below the stage point. You will just not see it until you advance the throttle above the stage point. ie, You can make the adjustment above or below. Which side to do it on is just a personal choice. I do it on the low side then check it above, then repeat until I'm happy. Once you wrap your head around this it only takes less than 2 minutes to do it. I'm looking at Steve's very interesting data on injector flow rates to see if I can incorporate it in the EC2/3 algorithms and minimize the amount of Mode 6 and MAP table tweaking needed. Tracy On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Ed Anderson wrot= e: > Pertaining to Steve's data and analysis and Tracy's comments about Mode = 6 > of the EC. > > I went back and read up on the Ec2 modes and found this statement which I > had apparently not paid sufficient attention to, but in light of Steve's > data and findings, thought it might be pertinent to the discussions. Fro= m > the EC2 instruction Manual: > > > *01-07-06 update* > *.* > > *Because the rotary has two injectors per rotor and they are staged (see > Mode 7 for details on staging), it is possible that the mixture* > > *might be miss-matched differently when staged or not staged. You may hav= e > to match the EGTs once when the engine is staged* > > *(low power) and again when not staged (high power).* > > So it appears that the EC2 has had the capability to adjust the different > in flow rates across the staging event since at least *2006*. But, > perhaps like many others, I was not certain what conditions would signif= y > this needed adjusting (until Steve's data and analysis) and therefore ne= ver > attempted any adjustment (my dumb!) - my philosophy being if it is worki= ng > well and you don't have a clue as to what/why you are adjusting something= - > then DON'T! {:>) > > The only "problem" (actually more of an irritant than a problem) I have > ever encountered using the EC2 was the staging "bog" I would encounter wh= ile > operating on the ground which I finally eliminated. What I did was to > enrich the fuel MAP in the 3-4 bins in the High MAP region that the engin= e > point jumped to after staging. This did solve my staging bob - but, aft= er > reading the EC2 instructions again, I can see that if I probably should h= ave > used Mode 6 to accomplish this as my adjustment was just for 3-4 bins and > not all bins. > > Once again Tracy has addressed the need in the Ec2/3 - but, I just faile= d > to understand the function (and conditions) it might have addressed. Now > that Steve has clearly shown there is a high probability that adjusting t= he > staging flow rate will result in more accurate fuel totalizer values and > other fuel factors, I can now see a reason to use mode 6. > > Thanks, guys - discussions on this list is generally always educational a= nd > helpful > > Ed > > > Edward L. Anderson > Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC > 305 Reefton Road > Weddington, NC 28104 > http://www.andersonee.com > http://www.eicommander.com > --0016364c7bd1cffd3404946a0b71 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

"Here = is a comment from=20 Tracy back in=20 April=94

=A0<= /font>

Also note that Mode 6=20 will have NO effect on the mixture if you are below the staging point (whic= h you=20 no doubt were at a MP of 14")=A0 It only affects the mixture above the= =20 staging point, ie, when the SECONDARIES are on."

Wow, it sure is hard to describe this stuff.=A0= =A0 Actually I think Bill and Ed are both correct but here is the factor th= at may help explain things.=A0=A0 It IS true that the Mode 6 adjustment you= make will make no REAL TIME change if you are below the staging point.=A0 = But it WILL change the mixture above the stage point EVEN IF you make it be= low the stage point.=A0 You will just not see it until you advance the thro= ttle above the stage point.=A0=A0 ie, You can make the adjustment above or = below. =A0 Which side to do it on is just a personal choice.=A0 I do it on = the low side then check it above, then repeat until I'm happy.=A0 Once = you wrap your head around this it only takes less than 2 minutes to do it. = =A0

I'm looking at Steve's very interesting data on injector flow r= ates to see if I can incorporate it in the EC2/3 algorithms and minimize th= e amount of Mode 6 and MAP table tweaking needed.

Tracy


On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at = 9:38 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Pertaining to Steve's data and analysis and T= racy's=20 comments about Mode 6 of the EC.
=A0
I went back and read up on the Ec2 modes and foun= d this=20 statement which I had apparently not paid sufficient attention to, but in l= ight=20 of Steve's data and findings, thought it might be pertinent to the=20 discussions.=A0 From the EC2 instruction Manual:
=A0

01-07-06=20 update

= .

Because the rotary has two injectors = per=20 rotor and they are staged (see Mode 7 for details on staging), it is possib= le=20 that the mixture

might be miss= -matched=20 differently when staged or not staged. You may have to match the EGT= s=20 once when the engine is staged

(low power) and again when not staged (high=20 power).

So it appears that the EC2 has had the c= apability to=20 adjust the different in flow rates across the staging event since at least= =20 2006.=A0 But, perhaps like many others, I was not=20 certain=A0 what conditions would signify this needed adjusting (until Steve= 's=20 data and=A0analysis) =A0and therefore never attempted any adjustment (my=20 dumb!) =A0- my philosophy being if it is working well and you don't hav= e a=20 clue as to what/why you are adjusting something - then DON'T! {:>)

The only "problem" (actually m= ore of an irritant than=20 a problem) =A0I have ever encountered using the EC2 was the staging "b= og" I=20 would encounter while operating on the ground which I finally eliminated.= =A0=20 What I did=A0was to enrich the fuel MAP in the 3-4 bins in the High MAP=20 region that the engine point jumped to after staging.=A0=A0 This did solve= =20 my staging bob - but, after reading the EC2 instructions again, I can see t= hat=20 if I probably should have used Mode 6 to accomplish this as my adjustment w= as=20 just for 3-4 bins and not all bins.

Once again Tracy has addressed the need = in the=A0=20 Ec2/3 - but, I just failed to understand the function (and conditions) it m= ight=20 have addressed.=A0 Now that Steve has clearly shown there is a high=20 probability that adjusting the staging flow rate will result in more accura= te=20 fuel totalizer values and other fuel =A0factors, I can now see a reason to= =20 use mode 6.

Thanks, guys - discussions on this list = is=20 generally=A0always educational and helpful

Ed

=A0

Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterpr= ises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

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