X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4557874 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 06 Nov 2010 13:12:31 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=uESSSoDEku2quKX/oFXS2Smn5+55LTFcWFr5T5T8nFs= c=1 sm=0 a=cmbZiRGqcF8A:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=r1ClD_H3AAAA:8 a=uqiwu4Jd1s1VvBcP4x8A:9 a=QWnwFu_BKXoq5mN3f6cA:7 a=SlWuE7qw03wc68lzaxy7PUZj_lsA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=Hr1DjjMNEFO_Ip0x:21 a=AdhkxIvNaFlEVgzq:21 a=pedpZTtsAAAA:8 a=n2uxZeSifCC1aNK83vMA:9 a=QQGWJdiPdJwctQ9uG9sA:7 a=J5z3_wPrdQ7kLti1ZcraqeCUklcA:4 a=eJojReuL3h0A:10 a=DYR9AQTH60UNONDh:21 a=w7RGx3oLxOTRNMss:21 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:53155] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 32/D5-07087-B5C85DC4; Sat, 06 Nov 2010 17:11:56 +0000 Message-ID: <760F8332BC3249BCB52E845A891666FE@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since 2006 Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 13:11:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01CB7DB4.23BF5C80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CB7DB4.23BF5C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, I agree with you that Tracy intended - and the instructions are = indeed written for adjustment in staging when using larger injectors = than the primary injectors. However, what I believe Tracy was = communicating when he suggested Mode 6 to address the situation that = Steve found was that Mode 6 could be used to address the "balance" = either way. From Tracy's message addressing Steve's finding, quote:=20 ...the latest version of both the EC2/3 and EM2/3 have parameters for = compensating for the staging flow factors being discussed. Mode 6 is = the EC2/3 factor. The EM2/3 has a similar factor for calibrating the = difference in fuel flow between staged & non staged.=20 I also agree the instruction you cited is indeed in the manual. Perhaps the answer to both my and your contention is that perhaps you = have to start/Select Mode 6 while the engine is below staging (as he = states) to get the EC2 in the correct mode and thereafter you can = advance above staging and continue to make adjustments (as he also = states). So perhaps that below staging just has to be the initial = condition (starting mode 6 below staging). =20 With the engine running below the staging point, (I would suggest about = 14 - 15" Hg manifold pressure) and the mixture monitor indicating mid scale, select mode 6 .. So perhaps you only have to start there - or perhaps it makes no = difference at all, but I assume Tracy included those instructions for a = reason. In any case, I think only Tracy can resolve the question (if there is = one {:>)), so I'll stop beating the expired Equus caballus carcass {:>) Ed From: Bill Bradburry=20 Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 12:44 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since 2006 No, I don't think you are wrong about mode 6. This part of the = instructions are what I was referring to: Keep the throttle setting at this point (above staging point) and repeat = this step until the mixture monitor indicates a mid-scale reading In your earlier post you said move below the staging point to make the = change. The above suggests we should stay above to make the change. In = a previous post, I think Tracy commented that the mode 6 only affects = the injectors above the stage. Tracy's instructions seem directed to leaning (I think) because if you = are transitioning from small primaries to large secondaries, you will = need to lean. But according to Steve's study, if you are transitioning = from same size primaries, you will have to richen. This kind of info is = a great help for me because I have trouble trying to figure out which = way to go when the engine is stumbling. =20 Bill B=20 =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 12:24 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since 2006 =20 Well, Bill =20 I could be wrong about Mode 6 - here is the description out of the = manual - plus Tracy indicated in a recent e mail that Mode 6 was = designed to address the situation that Steve found with his data. My = comments in blue =20 From the Manual:=20 =20 Program Mode 6 (Secondary injector differential adjustment) Some of the Mazda rotary engines produced after 1989 (especially the = 2004 and later Renesis engines) had larger injectors for the secondaries. This will result in an overly rich mixture above the = staging point (this is clearly not your situation) since the EC2 assumes = that all the injectors are the same size (flow rate ). If your engine is equipped with larger = secondaries, Mode 6 can be used to balance the mixture (note the word = used is balance - not restricted to leaning) above the staging point. It is also suggested that the staging point be set higher = when using large secondaries. A setting of about 19" Hg MAP is a good starting point. If you need to adjust for larger secondaries, follow these instructions. = This should be performed immediately after you have checked the Mode 3 setting and adjusted it if necessary (see Mode 3 = instructions) 1. With the engine running below the staging point, (I would suggest = about 14 - 15" Hg manifold pressure) and the mixture monitor indicating mid scale, select mode 6 and turn the program knob = slightly to the left of 12:00 position ( for leaning) and press the = program store switch. Now advance the throttle to above the staging point (~ 20" = Hg ) and observe the mixture. 2. If the mixture goes richer, turn the program knob a little further to = the left and push program store again. Keep the throttle setting at this point (above staging point) and repeat this step until = the mixture monitor indicates a mid-scale reading. If you go too far and the mixture goes lean, turn the program knob a little to the = right and hit program store again. Keep making small adjustments until you get a mid-scale mixture reading. The instructions I have in red indicate to me that although designed = with larger secondary injectors being the driver for this mode and = therefore the focus for the description, that in this mode you can be = used to adjust (balance) for a differential in flow either way - = leaner OR richer. Now clearly that is my interpretation and I will = admit could be incorrect. =20 Ed=20 =20 =20 =20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 12:08 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since 2006 =20 Ed, I agree with your take on the problem being a lean after staging = problem. This was where I was really confused. =20 I think tho, that the mode 6 only works above the staging point and = affects the injectors when all are operating. I think I should get the = mixture set at mid range below the staging point, then move to above the = staging point and see if the mixture goes lean. If it does, I should = stay above the staging point, set mode 6, set the program knob slightly = right of center and hit the white button. If this doesn't bring the = mixture to center, move the program knob further right and hit the = button again, continue till the mixture is in. all this done while = above staging. =20 A lot of my confusion is related to getting indications that it was lean = and rich using two different techniques. I haven't tried to calibrate = the fuel flow, but I am confused by the fact that it didn't change back = after I dropped back below the staging point. =20 I also think that changing the injector flow with mode 6 will cause all = the map table above staging to have to be changed (lowered? in this = case). =20 Bill B =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 11:23 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since 2006 =20 Hi Bill, =20 Here is my take for what its worth. =20 Your description (and flow values) sounds like you are encountering to = what I refer to as "staging bog", in my case, during the staging event = my air/fuel ratio indicator would disappear off the lean end of the = scale and the engine would momentarily stumble. I ended up enriching = those fuel bins (in my case bins 67-72) that my pointer jumps to = immediately after staging - the bog disappeared. So in line with what = the EC2 manual states and Steve's findings, it would appear that some = enrichment may be needed. =20 Tracy indicated in his recent e mail that Mode 6 could be used to = address the "flow rate" from below staging point to post staging point = of operation. Now the description of this mode in the EC manual = indicates it was apparently designed for those situation where folks = used a different (larger flow rate) injector in the secondary positions. = However, Tracy's suggestion to use it to compensate for a needed = difference in flow rates (increase or decrease) across the staging = point makes sense to me. =20 =20 Its is suggested that you use your Air/Fuel Ratio indicator to determine = which way to adjust using Mode 6. It sounds like in your case, you need = to enrich the flow after staging rather than lessen it. So taking the = opposite approach to the description in the Ec2 manual (which was = adjusting the staging so it went leaner after staging), it would seem = you would get below your staging point (so only the primary injectors = are operating) and enrichen the mixture using mode 6 and using the = Air/fuel ratio indication to see the results. Then advance your = throttle so you go above the staging point - and see if that has = improved the situation. If not enough, then drop back below staging = point and again increase the mixture with the Program Mixture knob = greater than 12:00 enriching the mixture and then take the engine back = above the staging point. =20 =20 I believe this is essentially what I accomplished (enrichen the flow) by = manual adjusting (increasing) the MAP values in the bins my engine jumps = to after staging. =20 The reason you don't get the bog dropping down ( in my opinion) is you = are going from a leaner flow (above staging) to a richer flow below = staging - therefore no bog. But, going from a richer flow to a leaner = flow during staging causes you engine to "bog". =20 Others may have different suggestions. =20 Good Luck =20 Ed =20 =20 =20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:32 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since 2006 =20 I have been working with staging for a couple of days and have my normal = confusion. =20 I have the Renesis engine but I have changed the red primary and blue = secondary injectors to all yellow injectors. This gives me roughly the = same fuel flow capability when all four injectors are on, but a higher = flow capability when only the primary are on as compared to the normal = Renesis.=20 My staging point is set at 15 inches. I know that is lower than Tracy = recommends, but it reduces the cooling requirements while I mess with = it. I may change it later if I figure out what I am doing and get = better (faster) at fixing the settings. If I have the manifold pressure above the staging point and slowly lower = it, it is a smooth transition and there is no indication that I can see = or hear that the staging has changed. BUT! =20 If I have the pressure below 15 and slowly raise it, it seems to me that = the engine is trying to make a decision as I go above 15, until I get to = about 15.5, then it suddenly makes a different sound and jumps to = 16.0-16.5. These bins are about 43 or 44 at 15 inches and it always = jumps to 47 or 48. The map table levels in this area are close to the = same. =20 I have not been able to determine if the change need is to lean or = richen the mixture. If you read the study Steve did, it would seem that = it needs to richen?? I tried a suggestion I read of Tracy's.I checked the fuel flow just = below the stage point, 2.7 gal/hr. then above the stage point.4.1 = gal/hr. This caused me to conclude that I needed to lean it, so I = lowered it back down below the stage point to get started trying it and = Whups! The fuel flow was still at 4+gal/hr! I waited for it to lower = but it didn't??? =20 I realize this sounds like I am rambling...so what else is new! =20 Any insights would be welcome. =20 Bill B -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 9:38 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Staging Adjustment in EC2 since 2006 =20 Pertaining to Steve's data and analysis and Tracy's comments about Mode = 6 of the EC. =20 I went back and read up on the Ec2 modes and found this statement which = I had apparently not paid sufficient attention to, but in light of = Steve's data and findings, thought it might be pertinent to the = discussions. From the EC2 instruction Manual: =20 01-07-06 update. Because the rotary has two injectors per rotor and they are staged (see = Mode 7 for details on staging), it is possible that the mixture might be miss-matched differently when staged or not staged. You may = have to match the EGTs once when the engine is staged (low power) and again when not staged (high power). So it appears that the EC2 has had the capability to adjust the = different in flow rates across the staging event since at least 2006. = But, perhaps like many others, I was not certain what conditions would = signify this needed adjusting (until Steve's data and analysis) and = therefore never attempted any adjustment (my dumb!) - my philosophy = being if it is working well and you don't have a clue as to what/why you = are adjusting something - then DON'T! {:>) The only "problem" (actually more of an irritant than a problem) I have = ever encountered using the EC2 was the staging "bog" I would encounter = while operating on the ground which I finally eliminated. What I did = was to enrich the fuel MAP in the 3-4 bins in the High MAP region that = the engine point jumped to after staging. This did solve my staging = bob - but, after reading the EC2 instructions again, I can see that if I = probably should have used Mode 6 to accomplish this as my adjustment was = just for 3-4 bins and not all bins. Once again Tracy has addressed the need in the Ec2/3 - but, I just = failed to understand the function (and conditions) it might have = addressed. Now that Steve has clearly shown there is a high probability = that adjusting the staging flow rate will result in more accurate fuel = totalizer values and other fuel factors, I can now see a reason to use = mode 6. Thanks, guys - discussions on this list is generally always educational = and helpful Ed =20 Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CB7DB4.23BF5C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill, I agree with you that Tracy intended - and = the=20 instructions are indeed written for adjustment in staging when using = larger=20 injectors than the primary injectors.  However, what I believe = Tracy was=20 communicating when he suggested Mode 6 to address the situation that = Steve found=20 was that Mode 6 could be used to address the "balance" either = way.
 
 
 
From Tracy's message addressing Steve's finding, = quote:=20
 
...the latest version of both the EC2/3 and EM2/3 have parameters = for=20 compensating for the staging flow factors = being=20 discussed.  Mode 6 is the EC2/3 factor.  The = EM2/3 has=20 a similar factor for calibrating the difference in fuel flow between = staged=20 & non staged.
I also agree the instruction you cited is indeed = in the=20 manual.
 
Perhaps the answer to both my and your = contention is that=20 perhaps you have to start/Select Mode 6 while the = engine is=20 below staging (as he states) to get the EC2 in the = correct mode=20 and thereafter you can advance above staging and continue to make = adjustments=20 (as he also states).  So perhaps that below staging just has = to be the=20 initial condition (starting mode 6 below staging). 
 

With the engine running=20 below the staging=20 point, (I would suggest about 14 =96 15=94 Hg manifold = pressure) and=20 the mixture

monitor indicating mid scale, select = mode 6=20 ..

So perhaps you only have to start there - or = perhaps it=20 makes no difference at all, but I assume Tracy included those = instructions for a=20 reason.

In any case, I think only Tracy can resolve the = question (if=20 there is one {:>)), so I'll stop beating the expired Equus caballus = carcass=20 {:>)

Ed


From: Bill Bradburry
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 12:44 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since=20 2006

No, I don=92t = think you=20 are wrong about mode 6.  This part of the instructions are what I = was=20 referring to:

Keep the throttle setting at this = point=20 (above staging point) and repeat this step until the mixture monitor = indicates a=20 mid-scale reading

In your earlier post you said move below the = staging=20 point to make the change.  The above suggests we should stay above = to make=20 the change.  In a previous post, I think Tracy commented that the mode 6 only = affects=20 the injectors above the stage.

Tracy<= FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman">=92s instructions seem directed to leaning (I = think)=20 because if you are transitioning from small primaries to large = secondaries, you=20 will need to lean.  But according to Steve=92s study, if you are=20 transitioning from same size primaries, you will have to richen.  = This kind=20 of info is a great help for me because I have trouble trying to figure = out which=20 way to go when the engine is = stumbling.

 

Bill B

 

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 = 12:24=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Staging = Adjustment=20 in EC2 since 2006

 

Well,=20 Bill

 

I could be wrong about = Mode 6 - here=20 is the description out of the manual - plus Tracy indicated in a recent e mail = that Mode 6=20 was designed to address the situation that Steve found with his = data.  My=20 comments in blue

 

From the Manual:=20

 

Program=20 Mode 6 (Secondary injector differential = adjustment)

Some of the=20 Mazda rotary engines produced after 1989 (especially the 2004 and later = Renesis=20 engines) had larger injectors for the

secondaries. This will result in an overly rich mixture above = the staging=20 point (this is clearly not your = situation)=20 since the EC2 assumes that all the injectors are=20 the

same size=20 (flow rate ). If your engine is equipped with larger secondaries, Mode 6 = can be=20 used to balance the=20 mixture (note the word used = is=20 balance - not restricted to = leaning) above=20 the

staging=20 point. It is also suggested that the staging point be set higher when = using=20 large secondaries. A setting of about 19=94 = Hg

MAP is a=20 good starting point.

If you need=20 to adjust for larger secondaries, follow these instructions. This should = be=20 performed immediately after you have

checked the=20 Mode 3 setting and adjusted it if necessary (see Mode 3=20 instructions)

1. With the=20 engine running below the staging point, (I would suggest about 14 =96 = 15=94 Hg=20 manifold pressure) and the mixture

monitor=20 indicating mid scale, select mode 6 and turn the program knob slightly = to the=20 left of 12:00 position ( for leaning) and press the = program

store=20 switch. Now advance the throttle to above the staging point (~ 20=94 Hg = ) and=20 observe the mixture.

2. If the mixture goes richer, turn the program knob = a little=20 further to the left and push program store again. Keep the=20 throttle

setting at this point (above = staging point)=20 and repeat this step until the mixture monitor indicates a mid-scale = reading.=20 If you go=20 too

far and the = mixture=20 goes lean, turn the program knob a little to the right and hit program = store=20 again. Keep making=20 small

adjustments until you get a = mid-scale=20 mixture reading.

The instructions I have in = red=20 indicate to me that although designed with larger secondary injectors = being the=20 driver for this mode and therefore the focus for the description, that = in this=20 mode you can be used to adjust (balance) for a differential in flow = either way=20 -   leaner OR richer.  Now clearly that is my = interpretation and=20 I will admit could be incorrect.

 

Ed=20

 

 

 

From: Bill Bradburry=20

Sent: Saturday,=20 November 06, 2010 12:08 PM

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since=20 2006

 

Ed,

I agree with = your take=20 on the problem being a lean after staging problem.  This was where = I was=20 really confused.

 

I think tho, = that the=20 mode 6 only works above the staging point and affects the injectors when = all are=20 operating.  I think I should get the mixture set at mid range below = the=20 staging point, then move to above the staging point and see if the = mixture goes=20 lean.  If it does, I should stay above the staging point, set mode = 6, set=20 the program knob slightly right of center and hit the white = button.  If=20 this doesn=92t bring the mixture to center, move the program knob = further right=20 and hit the button again, continue till the mixture is in.  all = this done=20 while above staging.

 

A lot of my = confusion=20 is related to getting indications that it was lean and rich using two = different=20 techniques.  I haven=92t tried to calibrate the fuel flow, but I am = confused=20 by the fact that it didn=92t change back after I dropped back below the = staging=20 point.

 

I also think = that=20 changing the injector flow with mode 6 will cause all the map table = above=20 staging to have to be changed (lowered? in this=20 case).

 

Bill=20 B

 

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 = 11:23=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Staging = Adjustment=20 in EC2 since 2006

 

Hi=20 Bill,

 

Here is my take for what = its=20 worth.

 

Your description (and flow = values)=20 sounds like you are encountering to what I refer to as "staging = bog",  in=20 my case, during the staging event my air/fuel ratio indicator would = disappear=20 off the lean end of the scale and the engine would momentarily = stumble.  I=20 ended up enriching those fuel bins (in my case bins 67-72) that my = pointer jumps=20 to immediately after staging - the bog disappeared.  So in line = with what=20 the EC2 manual states and Steve's findings, it would appear = that some=20 enrichment may be needed.

 

Tracy indicated in his recent = e mail that=20 Mode 6 could be used to address the "flow rate" from below staging point = to post=20 staging point of operation.  Now the description of this mode in = the EC=20 manual indicates it  was apparently designed for those situation = where=20 folks used a different (larger flow rate) injector in the secondary=20 positions.  However, Tracy's suggestion to use it to = compensate for=20 a needed difference in flow rates (increase or decrease)  across = the=20 staging point makes sense to me.  =

 

Its is suggested that you = use your=20 Air/Fuel Ratio indicator to determine which way to adjust using Mode = 6.  It=20 sounds like in your case, you need to enrich the flow after staging = rather than=20 lessen it.  So taking the opposite approach to the description in = the Ec2=20 manual (which was adjusting the staging so it went leaner after = staging), it=20 would seem you would get below your staging point (so only the primary = injectors=20 are operating) and enrichen the mixture using mode 6 and using the = Air/fuel=20 ratio indication to see the results.  Then advance your throttle so = you go=20 above the staging point - and see if that has improved the = situation.  If=20 not enough, then drop back below staging point and again increase the = mixture=20 with the Program Mixture knob greater than 12:00 enriching the mixture = and then=20 take the engine back above the staging point. =20

 

I believe this is = essentially what I=20 accomplished (enrichen the flow) by manual adjusting (increasing) the = MAP values=20 in the bins my engine jumps to after = staging.

 

The reason you don't get = the bog=20 dropping down ( in my opinion) is you are going from a leaner flow = (above=20 staging) to a richer flow below staging - therefore no bog.  But, = going=20 from a richer flow to a leaner flow during staging causes you engine to=20 "bog".

 

Others may have different=20 suggestions.

 

Good=20 Luck

 

Ed

 

 

 

From: Bill Bradburry=20

Sent: Saturday,=20 November 06, 2010 10:32 AM

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Staging Adjustment in EC2 since=20 2006

 

I have been = working=20 with staging for a couple of days and have my normal confusion. =20

I have the = Renesis=20 engine but I have changed the red primary and blue secondary injectors = to all=20 yellow injectors.  This gives me roughly the same fuel flow = capability when=20 all four injectors are on, but a higher flow capability when only the = primary=20 are on as compared to the normal Renesis.

My staging = point is set=20 at 15 inches.  I know that is lower than Tracy recommends, but it reduces the = cooling=20 requirements while I mess with it.  I may change it later if I = figure out=20 what I am doing and get better (faster) at fixing the=20 settings.

If I have the = manifold=20 pressure above the staging point and slowly lower it, it is a smooth = transition=20 and there is no indication that I can see or hear that the staging has=20 changed.  BUT!

 

If I have the = pressure=20 below 15 and slowly raise it, it seems to me that the engine is trying = to make a=20 decision as I go above 15, until I get to about 15.5, then it suddenly = makes a=20 different sound and jumps to 16.0-16.5.  These bins are about 43 or = 44 at=20 15 inches and it always jumps to 47 or 48.  The map table levels in = this=20 area are close to the same. 

I have not = been able to=20 determine if the change need is to lean or richen the mixture.  If = you read=20 the study Steve did, it would seem that it needs to=20 richen??

I tried a = suggestion I=20 read of Tracy=92s=85I checked the fuel flow = just below the=20 stage point, 2.7 gal/hr.  then above the stage point.4.1 gal/hr.=20   This caused me to conclude that I needed to lean it, so I = lowered it=20 back down below the stage point to get started trying it and Whups! The = fuel=20 flow was still at 4+gal/hr!  I waited for it to lower but it=20 didn=92t???

 

I realize = this sounds=20 like I am rambling=85..so what else is new!

 

Any insights = would be=20 welcome.

 

Bill=20 B

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 = 9:38=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Staging = Adjustment in=20 EC2 since 2006

 

Pertaining to Steve's data = and=20 analysis and Tracy's comments about Mode 6 of the=20 EC.

 

I went back and read up on = the Ec2=20 modes and found this statement which I had apparently not paid = sufficient=20 attention to, but in light of Steve's data and findings, thought it = might be=20 pertinent to the discussions.  From the EC2 instruction=20 Manual:

 

01-07-06=20 update.

Because the rotary = has two=20 injectors per rotor and they are staged (see Mode 7 for details on = staging), it=20 is possible that the mixture

might = be=20 miss-matched differently when staged or not=20 staged. You may have to match the EGTs = once when=20 the engine is staged

(low power) and = again when=20 not staged (high power).

So=20 it appears that the EC2 has had the capability to adjust the different = in flow=20 rates across the staging event since at least 2006.  But, = perhaps=20 like many others, I was not certain  what conditions would signify = this=20 needed adjusting (until Steve's data and analysis)  and = therefore=20 never attempted any adjustment (my dumb!)  - my philosophy being if = it is=20 working well and you don't have a clue as to what/why you are adjusting=20 something - then DON'T! {:>)

The=20 only "problem" (actually more of an irritant than a problem)  I = have ever=20 encountered using the EC2 was the staging "bog" I would encounter while=20 operating on the ground which I finally eliminated.  What I = did was to=20 enrich the fuel MAP in the 3-4 bins in the High MAP region that the = engine point=20 jumped to after staging.   This did solve my staging bob - = but, after=20 reading the EC2 instructions again, I can see that if I probably should = have=20 used Mode 6 to accomplish this as my adjustment was just for 3-4 bins = and not=20 all bins.

Once again Tracy has = addressed the=20 need in the  Ec2/3 - but, I just failed to understand the function = (and=20 conditions) it might have addressed.  Now that Steve has clearly = shown=20 there is a high probability that adjusting the staging flow rate will = result in=20 more accurate fuel totalizer values and other fuel  factors, I can = now see=20 a reason to use mode 6.

Thanks, guys - discussions = on this=20 list is generally always educational and helpful

Ed

 

Edward L. = Anderson
Anderson = Electronic=20 Enterprises LLC
305 = Reefton=20 Road
Weddington, NC = 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com=

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