Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #52762
From: <stevei@carey.asn.au>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Fw: LeMann's Induction system II Re: EM2 Numbers
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 19:33:09 +0800
To: <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Hi Ed

I realise that a total length was being sought. However, I was observing the change in length and how that effected the peak torque. So if you want to lift the peak torque approx 1000RPM in the 5500 to 6500 band on a system similar to the 26B intake tube dimensions, it seems that 2" would be about right.

Steve

On 01/11/2010, at 11:15 PM, Ed Anderson wrote:

 

Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 11:04 AM
Subject: LeMann's Induction system II Re: EM2 Numbers

Hi Steve,
 
Thanks for the graph, in reading up on the R26B LeMann engine (yes, I finally located the SAE paper on the web)  - the length in the graph appears to refer ONLY the change in length of telescoping portion of the variable induction on the LeManns.  You can see from the photo graphs that fully extended the total induction length is over twice the maximum 175mm of the telescoping length. 
 
Also this assertion is supported by this quote from the Mazda SAE paper on the R26b engine
 

The TIMS pipe can slide a maximum of 175 mm. 

The paper can be found at:

http://www.rotaryeng.net/Mazda_R26B_US.pdf

So if the telescoping portion can slide a maximum of 175mm then the total induction system is clearly longer as can be seen in the sketch of the engine below.

Therefore if making calculations its crucial to understand that this 175MM  appears to be ONLY the max length of the telescoping portion of the total induction length and not the total length.  Makes a big difference!
 
 
<B4C1.jpg>
<B4D1.jpg>
 
 
In this photo you can see the telescoping section extended to its full length.
 
I have attached a larger scale drawing of the total induction system for those who want to make their own determination of the intake length.  If the telescoping portion is fully extended then it appears that the rest of the length is approx 1.75 the length of the telescoping section as best as I could determine by relative scaling. 
 
Example Calculation
 
 
I measured the diameter of the rotor housing (smallest dimension) and found it to be 7 1/8".  I then took a circle and made it the same diameter and then used that from one end of the extended  intake to the combustion chamber entrance and came up with 3.5 diameters or 3.5 * 7.125 =  24.9 inches or say 25inches. That figure does not appear unreasonable just looking at the relative length of the extended tube length in the photo.
 
So if the telescoping section is fully extended at 6000 rpm then the total induction length is approx  25  inches. 
 
if 25 inches then a pulse generated by the opening of the intake port traveling to the entrance of the intake and reflected back to the intake port (to aid in stuffing the combustion chamber) would need to travel twice that distance or 50 inches.  50  inches is 4.167 ft which traveling at the velocity of sound at sea level of 1100 ft/sec would need 41.6/ 1100 = 0.00378 seconds to make the round trip.  Assuming the pulse is generated by the opening of the intake port which causes the trapped remant exhaust gas to burst forth into the intake thereby generating a shockwave/pulse and you want it to arrive back as the port is closing.
 
 Here are the PP port timings as found on Paul Yaws excellent web site on the rotary engine.

Mazda Factory Peripheral Port

IO 86° BTDC
IC 75° ABDC
EO 73° BBDC
EC 65° ATDC

This site is meant to give information
Don't know if this is the port opening on the R26B engine but the only thing I could find.
 
So 86 BTDC opening (pulse goes out) and 75 ABDC (Pulse arrives back), so total rotation from opening to closing is 86 + 75 = 181 deg, now it will be somewhat less than this as it takes some finite time for the pulse to be fully generated and you want it to arrive back probably 15-20 deg before the port closes.
 
But for the moment lets ignore those realities and see what we get.
 
So 180 / 0.00378 = 47520 deg/sec of rotation speed required.  47520 /360 = 132 revs/sec *60 = 7920 rpm which is a bit high. 
 
 If we now adjust from some realities such as time it takes to generate the pulse and having it arrive back before closing.  Somewhere I found some data in an engine book that indicates it would probably take around 5-10 % of open time to generate the pulse peak.  So taking 7.5 % opening time = 13.75 deg, so taking 14 Deg that and lets say 15 % of total open period arrival before port closes.  0.20 * 181 = 27.2 deg before closing,  we have 181 - (14+27.2)  = 139.9  deg total rotation travel time for the pulse to transverse the intake.
 
140/0.00378  = 36960 deg/sec rotation speed required.  36960/360 = 103 rev/sec * 60 sec = 6180 rpm - not too far from 6000 rpm.  A few deg error in assumption of the time it takes to generate the pulse and the time its suppose to arrive back at the port could easily account for the difference.
 
So  if my estimates of the time it takes to generate the pulse and when the pulse arrives back are off then naturally the calculation will be off as well.
 
My point is that Mark is correct - the length of the induction systems (and exhaust system) has a significant effect - probably more so for the PP than the normal ported 13B.
 
At the other end of the telescopic length = 0 leaves approx 27 - 6.88 = say 20 inches of total induction length.
 
With the same assumptions for the pulse  - we have travel time for 20 inches induction length = 40 inches for the round trip.  40/12 = 3.33 ft.  3.33/1100 = 0.00303 travel time.
 
140/0.0303 = 46200 deg /sec rotation speed required.  45200/360 = 128.3 revs/sec * 60 sec = 7700 rpm.  A bit low compared to the chart  below - that could be because the pulse generation time and the pulse closing target may not change linearly with higher rpm.
 
But again, my point is that length does matter (no matter what the lady said {:>)
 
Back to my cave
 
Ed
 
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com


Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 5:09 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EM2 Numbers

Hi Mark

I have attached the Leman intake dimensions from Paul L.
Hope this is helpful. Can't remember whether this measurement was to the rotor face or manifold face.

Steve Izett
Perth Western Australia 
<Lemans-torque-curves3.jpg>
  
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