Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #52756
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EM2 Numbers
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 19:38:28 -0500
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Bill, 

There are a number of silicone connectors in my intake, but the problem with this is that the runner length needs to be shorter and all of the pieces are butted together now.  So, there is nowhere to shorten it without cutting tubing somewhere. 

As Tracy suggested, I will hold off until I do some more tuning as it is likely that at least some of the problem is the mixture is going lean above 6000 rpm.  The more I think about it, the more I think he hit the nail on the head.  I'll do some tuning this weekend and see what improvement that gives.

Mark

On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Mark,

Can you cut it and place a hose over the cut so you can adjust the length till you get it figured out?

Bill B

 


From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 11:02 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EM2 Numbers

 

Steve,

 

Agree, but I will proceed carefully else I fall into the "cut it off twice and it is still too short" quandry.

 

Mark 

On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 8:58 AM, <stevei@carey.asn.au> wrote:

Hi Mark

 

The two inches would be backed up by the 26B data. 

2" in the 5500 - 6500 rev range made approx. 1000RPM difference to the peek torque curve.

 

Steve 

 

On 01/11/2010, at 8:13 PM, Mark Steitle wrote:



Steve,

 

I saw that one, but it is a bit illusive as to the actual runner lengths.  I think it is referring to the LeMans 26B setup with variable intakes.  It had a section of fixed length, then a slide section.  Depending on where the slide was set, it had a specific overall length.  I think this chart just shows what the slide section is set at.  Not really helpful to us if we don't know the length of the fixed section. 

 

I found another article titled Fundamentals of Intake Design on PL's site that shows basically the same information, but references total runner length.  Based on that chart, it appears that 21.8" would give me peak power around 6200-6500.  My current runner length is 24" which by extrapolation would put the peak power down around 5500 rpm, which is where it is now.  Looks like I need to shorten my intake runners by 2". 

 

Mark

On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:09 AM, <stevei@carey.asn.au> wrote:

Hi Mark

 

I have attached the Leman intake dimensions from Paul L.

Hope this is helpful. Can't remember whether this measurement was to the rotor face or manifold face.

 

Steve Izett

Perth Western Australia 

<Lemans-torque-curves3.jpg>

On 01/11/2010, at 8:40 AM, Mark Steitle wrote:

 

Bill,

 

I understand the sausage illustration.  But if what you propose were true, then why did Mazda make such a major effort to design and implement the variable intake on their LeMans 26B p-port motor?  That tells me that runner length does make a significant difference on the p-port motor.  Also, if tuned runners didn't matter for peripheral ports, then why do they tune the exhaust runners on the 13B's?  Somewhere I have a chart showing the effect of runner length, but I'm not sure that the data is from a p-port motor.

 

Mark

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Mark,

I don’t think that will work with the PP.  You never actually block the inlet.  You just cut off the end of the flow of air as the apex flies by and it starts to fill the next chamber.  Think of the flow as a long sausage that is going through a propeller made of a strand of wire 2 or 3 MM thick and being cut into sections.  It is never blocked.  I doubt that there are any reflections and if there are, they would be very small and of little benefit to enhance.

 

I think that is why the PP is so much stronger than the side port.

 

Bill B

 


From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 8:01 PM


To: Rotary motors in aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EM2 Numbers

 

 

 

George,

 

Sorry for the delayed reply, but I had to go to the hangar and measure the runner length to be sure.  It is 24" bellmouth to rotor face, 2" OD.  Exhaust is 2" OD also, running the stock 20b exhaust splitters.

 

So, my power seems to peak around 6000 rpm.  What length intake runner length would it take to bring peak power up to around 6500 rpm? 

 

Mark 

On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 3:53 PM, George Lendich <lendich@aanet.com.au> wrote:

   Mark,

    That's interesting; can you tell me what is your PP size, runner length and exhaust header ID size.

    George (down under) 

 

From: Mark Steitle

Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 7:38 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EM2 Numbers

 

Bill, 

 

With the current setup, it appears to be around 6000-6100, but I'm still tuning on the upper addresses of the EC-2.  My old engine did best around 6500-6600 running the same prop.  So, I feel there is something that isn't quite right on the new P-Port motor... maybe intake runners too short, intake or exhaust too restrictive, timing off a bit, etc.  It definitely makes more hp than the old motor did in the 5000-6000 range, but I feel that it should be producing more hp than I'm seeing in the 6000-7000 range.  

 

So, things are still developing.  Yesterday, I reinstalled the old air-filter box which has a ram-air feature incorporated into the design.  I haven't flown it yet to see if there is any improvement, but I hope to see at least a little improvement.

 

On a side note, I have determined that there is a 250 rpm discrepancy between the rpm readout of the EM-2 and that of the M/T prop controller.  I have an optical tach that I will be using to determine which one is in error.   

 

Stay tuned (no pun intended),

Mark

 

 

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Mark,

It would seem that if you flattened the pitch of the prop, the engine rpms would increase, but at some point, you would begin to lose airspeed and start to slow down because the prop was just not taking a big enough bite.  Conversely, it seems that if you increased the prop pitch, the engine rpms would decrease, but the airspeed would increase up to some point and then after that, an increase in pitch would cause a decrease in airspeed because you are taking too big a bite and the engine just can not pull it.  Somewhere in there is a “Sweet Spot” of propeller rpm that gives the highest airspeed.  Lets say that this question assumes that you are at WOT and 8500 feet, which should give you roughly a 75% power output.  Do you know where that sweet spot is with your propeller?

 

Bill B

 


From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle


Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 10:00 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] EM2 Numbers

 

Rotarians,

 

Things have been a bit quiet on the list lately, so I thought I would post this picture of my EM-2 taken on a trip from Galveston, TX (KGLS) to Lockhart, TX (50R) yesterday.  I was level at 8500msl when taking the picture.  A/C is a Lancair ES (4-place), engine is a n/a p-ported 20b.  

 

Please disregard the oil temp as the reading on the EM-2 is measured after the first cooler and before the second cooler.  Oil temp readings out of the second cooler (measured at the oil filter pad) track water temps within a few degrees.

 

Leaned to "Economy Cruise" and dial the prop down to 1800 rpm and the speed drops down about 15 mph and fuel burn drops to 9.1 gph.  You pay dearly for that 15 mph but sometimes it is just too much fun to slow down.

 

Mark S.

---------- Forwarded message ----------


From: Mark <msteitle@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 8:50 PM
Subject:
To: msteitle@gmail.com








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