X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from securemail.ever-tek.com ([64.129.170.194] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4542883 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:20:04 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.129.170.194; envelope-from=cbarber@texasattorney.net Received: from fcd-mail06.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([2002:404:40b::404:40b]) by FCD-MAIL06.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([::1]) with mapi; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:19:04 -0500 From: Chris Barber To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil pressure change...wow (and other stuff) Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil pressure change...wow (and other stuff) Thread-Index: AQHLdSs2bs1b0mr7aUusH+REjPE7jpNTdAL0 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:19:03 +0000 Message-ID: <2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3032750F56@FCD-MAIL06.FCDATA.PRIVATE> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3032750F56FCDMAIL06FCDATA_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3032750F56FCDMAIL06FCDATA_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, Sorry about the convoluted message. Actually, I think I was describing only two additional problems. Both have= been mentioned here and so far no joy on a fix. The first one is that at = around 6000 rpm, my EM2 tach cuts out and drops to a reading of zero (somet= imes it flashes 3000ish is as its going to zero). Should I back it off to = around 5800 rpm I can slowly advance the throttle and get the tach to not c= ut out to about 6300 rpm, however, any power reading over about 6300 and th= e tach reading drops back to zero until I retard the throttle a bit. Before Tracy left for Co he emailed that I try adding a 5-6000 resistor in = the tach wire with a capacitor to ground. I did so, with various resistor = wattage to no avail. Either the behavior did not change or it showed zero = all the time with the higher wattage resistors. Not unexpected if I unders= tand the resistor thing. It was during my failed attempts to resolve the t= ach issue when I noticed the original oil pressure drop. The second issue mentioned is that my EGT readings, which were originally w= orking, started jumping all around, reading from a couple hundred degree's = to obscenely high readings such as 6000/7000/8000 degrees. It is happening= with both EGT sensors. I have checked the sensors, the connections midway= through the wire run as well as into the back of the EM2. The wires are th= ermal couple from the engine to the monitor. I am about to replace the the= rmal coupling form the mid point to the monitor with standard wire to see i= f that makes a difference. Absolute precession is not my goal here, but co= nsistence with be nice. Right now, it is really annoying since it keeps se= tting off my alert light and keeps flashing on the EMS. This sucks since I= have become conditioned to ignoring the alerts. I have considered asking= how to disable the readings until I figure out more. A third issue I did not mention is my staging star is staying on all the ti= me, even though it seems obvious it is running on all four injectors. Obvi= ous as when I cut primary injectors or secondary's, the engine keeps runnin= g along after a bit a of stumble to get its bearings. Just started noticing= that. I will try to record the pressure readings if it occurs to me when I am out= there later today. Should allow me better comparison. Chris ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of = Bill Bradburry [bbradburry@bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 11:30 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil pressure change...wow (and other stuff) Chris, The oil pressure spec for the Renesis is 51 lbs at 3000 rpm with an oil tem= p of 100 C. I imagine that it should be close to the same for your engine = as well. My guess is that you are still getting a low pressure indication.= When I started mine the other day, I noticed that I was reading 71 lbs at= idle when the oil was cold. As the engine warmed up and I increased the r= pm, it stayed in the range of 60-70. In your msg below, what does this mean? . (on top of my RPM's cutting out around 6000 rpm - can slowly inch it up = to 6300, with power to spare- if I go slowly, but cuts out at rpm over 6300= and change on the EM2 and an EGT reading issue). It seems that there are three problems in that sentence on top of the one a= bout the strobes??? Bill B ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Chris Barber Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 9:51 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil pressure change...wow (and other stuff) Since my oil pressure was down a bit following my pressure repair I decided= to take heed or some of the comments regarding one of the possible causes = as presented here. It seemed to be the easiest that I could try. So, I shelled out the bucks for some Royal Purple 50 (actually, 20/50 IIRC)= . Geezh, I thought the 30 weight and 40 weight was pricey at $8 and $10 a = quart, this stuff was $16.00 a quart. I drained about 2 to 3 quarts out of= the pan and out of the filter and replaced it with the 50 wieght. So, now= it was a blend of the 30 and the 50. I cranked up the engine and my oil p= ressure was up by about 10-15 psi. WOW! I did not expect such a dramatic = increase. I had just run the engine earlier (before I went and purched the= oil). Before the change, my idle pressure was around 28-30. After the ch= ange it was in the low 40's. The most psi I was getting before the change= was about 50-55 psi at 6300 rpm. After the change it was at about 72 psi = at 6300. I let her idle for about ten minutes and all seemed good. So, since my temp= s seemed good and steady now that Outside air Temps were have now dipped do= wn into the low 90 I decided to taxi around a bit. Yep, I sometimes enjoy = taxiing around in my very expensive go-cart. The engine was running sooooo smooth and strong. I was feeling pretty damn= good about it all. Since I was moving around on the ramp where there was = quite a bit of traffic following this weekends big 'ol Wings Over Houston a= ir show, I reached down and switched on my nav/strobe lights. At the exact= instant of turning on the light (which, btw, are on my secondary alternato= r circuit) the engine started faltering and wanting to stall out. WTF!!! = I switched to the B computer and things smoothed out. Back to A and had to= add throttle and mixture to keep it running and it was still rough. Back = to B to make it back to the hangar. Once back at the hangar, I checked the MAP table (RWS EM2, btw) and nothing= seemed changed from earlier. Kinda sounded like fuel was having trouble g= etting to the injectors. I would think to look at the injectors first, but= am not inclined to focus here too much since the engien smoothed out when = changed to the B computer. Since both computers use the same systems, it s= eems to be isolated to the primary computer. Please, correct what I am mis= sing here. Since my judgment was clouded with anger, I put everything back= in th hangar for the night. This good good bad good bad stuff is taxing a= nd discouraging. I feel I am so close, then this nonsense. (on top of my = RPM's cutting out around 6000 rpm - can slowly inch it up to 6300, with pow= er to spare- if I go slowly, but cuts out at rpm over 6300 and change on th= e EM2 and an EGT reading issue). To quote Mork....."Heavy sigh". Trying to wrap my head around where to start on this latest PITA gremlin. = It had been running as close to perfect as I could have imagined. All the best, Chris Barber Houston --_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3032750F56FCDMAIL06FCDATA_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
 
Sorry about the convoluted message.
 
Actually, I think I was describing only two ad= ditional problems.  Both have been mentioned here and so f= ar no joy on a fix.  The first one is that at around 6000 rpm, my=  EM2 tach cuts out and drops to a reading of zero (sometimes it flashes 3000ish is= as its going to zero).  Should I back it off to around 5800 rpm I can= slowly advance the throttle and get the tach to not cut= out to about 6300 rpm, however, any power reading over about 6300 and the tach reading drops back to zero= until I retard the throttle a bit.
 
Before Tracy left for Co he emailed that I try adding a 5-6000 resisto= r in the tach wire with a capacitor to ground. = ; I did so, with various resistor wattage to no avail.  Ei= ther the behavior did not change or it showed zero all the time with the higher wattage resistors.  Not unexpected i= f I understand the resistor thing.  It was during my failed attempts t= o resolve the tach issue when I noticed the original oil= pressure drop.
 
The second issue mentioned is that my EGT readings,= which were originally working, started jumping all around, reading=  from a couple hundred degree's to obscenely high read= ings such as 6000/7000/8000 degrees.  It is happening with both EGT sensors.  I have checked the sensors= , the connections midway through the wire run as well as into the back of t= he EM2. The wires are thermal couple from the eng= ine to the monitor.  I am about to replace the thermal coupling form the mid point to the monitor with standard wire to se= e if that makes a difference.  Absolute precession is not my goal here= , but consistence with be nice.  Right now, it is really&n= bsp;annoying since it keeps setting off my alert light and keeps flashing on the EMS.  This sucks since I have become = conditioned to ignoring the alerts.  I  have considered asking ho= w to disable the readings until I figure out more.
 
A third issue I did not mention is my staging star is staying on all t= he time, even though it seems obvious it is running on all four inject= ors.  Obvious as when I cut primary injectors or secondary's, t= he engine keeps running along after a bit a of stumble to get its bearings. Just started noticing that.  <= /div>
 
I will try to record the pressure readings if it occurs to me when I a= m out there later today.  Should allow me better comparison.
 
Chris
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary= @lancaironline.net] on behalf of Bill Bradburry [bbradburry@bellsouth.net]<= br> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 11:30 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil pressure change...wow (and other stuff)=

Chris,

The oil pressur= e spec for the Renesis is 51 lbs at 3000 rpm with an oil temp of 100 C.&nbs= p; I imagine that it should be close to the same for your engine as well.  My guess is that you are still getting a lo= w pressure indication.  When I started mine the other day, I noticed t= hat I was reading 71 lbs at idle when the oil was cold.  As the engine= warmed up and I increased the rpm, it stayed in the range of 60-70.

&= nbsp;

In your msg bel= ow, what does this mean?

&= nbsp;

.  (on= top of my RPM's cutting out around 6000 rpm - can slowly inch it up t= o 6300, with power to spare- if I go slowly, but cuts out at rpm over 6300 and change on the EM2 and an EGT reading is= sue).

 

It seems th= at there are three problems in that sentence on top of the one about the st= robes???

 

Bill B

&= nbsp;

&= nbsp;

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et] On Behalf Of Chris Barber Sent: Tuesday, October 26, = 2010 9:51 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircra= ft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil pr= essure change...wow (and other stuff)

 

Since my oi= l pressure was down a bit following my pressure repair I decided to take he= ed or some of the comments regarding one of the possible causes as presented here.  It seemed to be the easiest that = I could try.

 

So, I shell= ed out the bucks for some Royal Purple 50 (actually, 20/50 IIRC).  Gee= zh, I thought the 30 weight and 40 weight was pricey at $8 and $10 a quart, this stuff was $16.00 a quart.  I drained abou= t 2 to 3 quarts out of the pan and out of the filter and replaced it with t= he 50 wieght.  So, now it was a blend of the 30 and the 50.  I cr= anked up the engine and my oil pressure was up by about 10-15 psi.  WOW!  I did not expect such a dramatic incr= ease.  I had just run the engine earlier (before I went and = purched the oil).  Before the change, my idle pressure was a= round 28-30.  After the change it was in the low 40's.  The most = psi I was getting  before the change was about 50-55 psi at 6300 rpm.  Aft= er the change it was at about 72 psi at 6300. 

 

I let her i= dle for about ten minutes and all seemed good. So, since my temps seemed go= od and steady now that Outside air Temps were have now dipped down into the low 90 I decided to taxi around a bit. = Yep, I sometimes enjoy taxiing around in my very expensive go-cart. 

 

The engine = was running sooooo smooth and strong.  I was feeling pretty damn = good about it all.  Since I was moving around on the ramp where there was quite a bit of traffic following this weekends b= ig 'ol Wings Over Houston air show, I reached down and switched on my nav/s= trobe lights.  At the exact instant of turning on the light (which, bt= w, are on my secondary alternator circuit) the engine started faltering and wanting to stall out.  WTF!!!  = I switched to the B computer and things smoothed out.  Back to A and h= ad to add throttle and mixture to keep it running and it was still rough.&n= bsp; Back to B to make it  back to the hangar.

 

Once back a= t the hangar, I checked the MAP table (RWS EM2, btw) and nothing seemed cha= nged from earlier.  Kinda sounded like fuel was having trouble getting to the injectors.  I would think to look a= t the injectors first, but am not inclined to focus here too much since the=  engien smoothed out when changed to the B computer.  Since both = computers use the same systems, it seems to be isolated to the primary computer.  Please, correct what I am missing = here.  Since my judgment was clouded with anger, I put everything= back in th hangar for the night.  This good good bad good b= ad stuff is taxing and discouraging.  I feel I am so close, then this nonsense.  (on top of my RPM's cutting out around 6000 rpm = - can slowly inch it up to 6300, with power to spare- if I go slowly, but c= uts out at rpm over 6300 and change on the EM2 and an EGT reading= issue). To quote Mork....."Heavy sigh".

 

Trying to w= rap my head around where to start on this latest PITA gremlin.  It had= been running as close to perfect as I could have imagined.

 

All the bes= t,

 

Chris Barbe= r

Houston

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