X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-wy0-f180.google.com ([74.125.82.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4542651 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:38:21 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.180; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by wyb32 with SMTP id 32so4921952wyb.25 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 07:37:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=HBnLxeMe/aBhaDRaMvJPwzT1JyzGNVz6377X51SNobM=; b=NfLcoxz7/szTdvHeCqAw/vbcpjjLIyWP7mD7FmKnjNS5+7HgoF8MvbfYEA+B+24vgs hRa4vsO8BP9mLQQ2eEIwGp/CwXoPXQN4ViYq6p4sEwxvr3MvEeoqb0H8qlj3CtLkWKRk kIVgNpEQGsAK2dtLZj+ZQT0n2cCxw72+batt8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=aKtvXAW6Bnb9WpE3PpRMCi2fq5AiSoVpr5gl5JRLaP7H3f0lVOgQeDs/QWO+oUHIlG do9JgZM3Ch5k827Y/R2xG9SppQZbN9X7aZX8miE3HrZHvkVihfxaysbiuopo6+iaCev/ S2EkFdQY3zBjD7VwDBYvoyMj0zb3mgO4sH3+Y= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.136.194 with SMTP id s2mr3436864wbt.6.1288103866429; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 07:37:46 -0700 (PDT) Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.72.18 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 07:37:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:37:46 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 63_dN-uNJcJyfkgHag3iicp3g24 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] FW: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e657b29e6474ad0493860d28 --0016e657b29e6474ad0493860d28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Chris, "Interesting" numbers, even without the temperature data. If all these numbers are accurate, the only reason this would happen is if the guy in th= e front seat was pulling back too hard on the stick. If you really mean that 70 kts is all it would do in level flight at 5300 rpm then the instruments are lying or the numbers on the prop are WAY off. If the numbers are right, let the thing accelerate to at least 110 kts and see if it cools any better. I know you were anxious to get some distance between you and the ground but get a little more speed on before doing it. There may be other problems but start there. Tracy On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Chris and Terria < candtmallory@embarqmail.com> wrote: > Yes, I have split the inlet in the cowl. In the picture, the smaller > (right) portion goes up to the oil cooler. The larger (left) portion is = for > the water cooler. You are right on all your presumptions, Sam James cowl= , > griffin radiator, oil cooler on the right side of the engine. > > > > I flew her again today, but didn=92t get great results. Here is the data= : > > > > Renesis, RD-1C, BIG FAT CATTO prop (76 x 88) > > Static RPM max =3D 5000 > > 67* outside air temp > > Rolling down the runway, the max RPM was 5300 > > Best speed I got was 70 KTS > > At 1500 feet, I pulled the power back with water temp at 210 (it peaked a= t > 230, but by then, I was at idle) > > Pulled closed and landed, 190 on both water and oil temp at landing. > > > > Water cooler inlet is 36 sq in. > > Exit at the back of the cowl for water and oil cooling air, and exhaust i= s > 67 sq in. > > > > I have a couple of ideas. One is that my exit isn=92t large enough, so I= am > backing up air, and not getting proper cooling. > > Second is that the shape of my duct isn=92t good enough. I think I can c= heck > this using a manometer (may be spelled wrong), but I would like some > directions on how to accomplish this. > > Third, I may be getting some blow-by at the bottom of my radiator. If the > fiberglass cowling bows out due to pressure in the intake duct, I am loos= ing > cooling. I think I can check this by tying the plane down REAL WELL, > running the engine up to high power setting and looking into the cowl exi= t. > If I see daylight below the radiator, I know I have blow-by. > > Fourth, the prop is so big, that the engine can=92t pull the plane throug= h > the air enough to get fast and create better cooling flow. If I have to > keep full power and can only generate 70 kts, the radiator will never kee= p > up. > > > > Looking for inputs and comments from the group. > > > > Chris > > > > *From:* shipchief@aol.com [mailto:shipchief@aol.com] > *Sent:* Monday, October 25, 2010 1:06 AM > *To:* candtmallory@embarqmail.com > *Subject:* Re: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again > > > > C&T; > > WOW! That's exotic! I presume you have a Sam James Rotary cowl? I built a > chin scoop for a griffin radiator, but it's just a simple scoop with no > upper lip. > > I have the stock VAN's RV-8 cowl, so I take oil cooler air from the right > cowl cheek; it looks like you have the oil cooler on the right side and t= ake > that air from the right side of the chin scoop? > > I too did concept testing on my partially completed scoops and diffusers. > Once they proved good I continued with the finish work, and you know what= ? > they worked even better as finished parts than the tape and cardboard tes= t > peices. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris and Terria > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Sun, Oct 24, 2010 6:16 pm > Subject: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again > > Gents, > > > > I=92ve finally installed my new radiator and built the ductwork. The sid= es > and top are completed with fiberglass, the bottom is just the foam, cover= ed > with duct tape. It will hold the shape, and can=92t fall out or move. S= o > tomorrow I test it out. > > > > I=92ll post the results tomorrow. > > > > Chris > > -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.= lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > --0016e657b29e6474ad0493860d28 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Chris,
=A0=A0 "Interesting" numbers, even without the tempe= rature data.=A0=A0 If all these numbers are accurate, the only reason this = would happen is if the guy in the front seat was pulling back too hard on t= he stick.=A0 If you really mean that 70 kts is all it would do in level fli= ght at 5300 rpm then the instruments are lying or the numbers on the prop a= re WAY off.=A0

If the numbers are right, let the thing accelerate to at least 110 kts = and see if it cools any better.=A0=A0 I know you were anxious to get some d= istance between you and the ground but get a little more speed on before do= ing it.

There may be other problems but start there.

Tracy

On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Chris and Terria <candtmallo= ry@embarqmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I have split the inlet in the cowl.=A0 In the picture, the smaller (right) portion goes up to the oil cooler.=A0 The larger (left) portion is for the water cooler.=A0 You are right on all your presumptions, Sam James cowl, griffin radiator, oil cooler on the right side of the engin= e.

=A0

I flew her again today, but didn=92t get great results.=A0 Here is the data:

=A0

Renesis, RD-1C, BIG FAT CATTO prop (76 x 88)

Static RPM max =3D 5000

67* outside air temp

Rolling down the runway, the max RPM was 5300

Best speed I got was 70 KTS

At 1500 feet, I pulled the power back with water temp at 210 (it peaked at 230, but by then, I was at idle)

Pulled closed and landed, 190 on both water and oil temp at landing.

=A0

Water cooler inlet is 36 sq in.=A0

Exit at the back of the cowl for water and oil cooling air, and exhaust is 67 sq in.

=A0

I have a couple of ideas.=A0 One is that my exit isn=92t large enough, so I am backing up air, and not getting proper cooling.

Second is that the shape of my duct isn=92t good enough.=A0 I think I can check this using a manometer (may be spelled wrong), but I woul= d like some directions on how to accomplish this.

Third, I may be getting some blow-by at the bottom of my radiator. If the fiberglass cowling bows out due to pressure in the intake duct, I am loosing cooling.=A0 I think I can check this by tying the plane down REAL WELL, running the engine up to high power setting and looking int= o the cowl exit.=A0 If I see daylight below the radiator, I know I have blow-by.

Fourth, the prop is so big, that the engine can=92t pull the plane through the air enough to get fast and create better cooling flow.=A0 If I have to keep full power and can only generate 70 kts, the radiator will nev= er keep up.

=A0

Looking for inputs and comments from the group.

=A0

Chris

=A0

From:= shipchief@aol.com [mailto:shipchief@ao= l.com]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 1:06 AM
To: candtmallory@embarqmail.com
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again

=A0

C&= ;T;

WOW! = That's exotic! I presume you have a Sam James Rotary cowl? I built a chin scoop for a griffin radiator, but it's just a simple scoop= with no upper lip.

I hav= e the stock VAN's RV-8 cowl, so I take oil cooler air from the right cowl cheek; it looks like you have the oil cooler on the right si= de and take that air from the right side of the chin scoop?

I too= did concept testing on my partially completed scoops and diffusers. Once they proved good I continued with the finish work, and you = know what? they worked even better as finished parts than the tape and cardboard test peices.

=A0

=A0

-----Original Message= -----
From: Chris and Terria <candtmallory@embarqmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Oct 24, 2010 6:16 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again

Gents,

=A0

I=92ve finally installed my new radiator and built t= he ductwork.=A0 The sides and top are completed with fiberglass, the bottom is just the foam, covered with duct tape.=A0 It will hold the shape, and can= =92t fall out or move.=A0 So tomorrow I test it out.

=A0

I=92ll post the results tomorrow.

=A0

Chris=A0


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