X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-db01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.95] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4542025 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:30:08 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.91.95; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-da02.mx.aol.com (imo-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.200]) by imr-db01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o9Q3TPd6018121 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:29:25 -0400 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-da02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.f19.cbdb460 (45074) for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-dc02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-dc02.mx.aol.com [205.188.170.2]) by cia-mc02.mx.aol.com (v129.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMC026-d3854cc64b07238; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:29:15 -0400 Received: from Webmail-d104 (webmail-d104.sim.aol.com [205.188.171.198]) by smtprly-dc02.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDC025-d3854cc64b07238; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:29:11 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:29:11 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 108.3.31.54 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CD42D5175C54F2_14F0_87828_Webmail-d104.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 32823-STANDARD Received: from 108.3.31.54 by Webmail-d104.sysops.aol.com (205.188.171.198) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:29:11 -0400 Message-Id: <8CD42D5175530CF-14F0-3B37C@Webmail-d104.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CD42D5175C54F2_14F0_87828_Webmail-d104.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Maybe you should make a water manometer and check the pressure differentia= l through your heat heat exchangers. I'll bet your outlet is not big enoug= h, or might be restrictive due to it's configuration.=20 What type of aircraft is this engine in? good luck, hope you get it sorted out soon. Sounds like you have some good= ideas of what the problem(s) might be.=20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: shipchief@aol.com To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 8:20 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again I had similar trouble with heating, although I never got out of the yard,= much less in the air. I separated the air paths to and from the radiator= and the oil cooler. I needed to do this to isolate the problems. My oil= cooler hot air exits the right cowl side, thru louvers. The oil cooler ai= r inlet diffuser made the biggest improvement, the exit louvers turned out= to be important, and improved oil cooling too. I think isolating the syst= ems made it possible to track down the problems. Every little bit that mak= es an improvement can be made as a permanent part, then move forward. -----Original Message----- From: Chris and Terria To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 6:43 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] FW: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again Yes, I have split the inlet in the cowl. In the picture, the smaller (rig= ht) portion goes up to the oil cooler. The larger (left) portion is for= the water cooler. You are right on all your presumptions, Sam James cowl= , griffin radiator, oil cooler on the right side of the engine. =20 I flew her again today, but didn=E2=80=99t get great results. Here is the= data: =20 Renesis, RD-1C, BIG FAT CATTO prop (76 x 88) Static RPM max =3D 5000 67* outside air temp Rolling down the runway, the max RPM was 5300 Best speed I got was 70 KTS At 1500 feet, I pulled the power back with water temp at 210 (it peaked at= 230, but by then, I was at idle) Pulled closed and landed, 190 on both water and oil temp at landing. =20 Water cooler inlet is 36 sq in. =20 Exit at the back of the cowl for water and oil cooling air, and exhaust is= 67 sq in. =20 I have a couple of ideas. One is that my exit isn=E2=80=99t large enough,= so I am backing up air, and not getting proper cooling. Second is that the shape of my duct isn=E2=80=99t good enough. I think I= can check this using a manometer (may be spelled wrong), but I would like= some directions on how to accomplish this. Third, I may be getting some blow-by at the bottom of my radiator. If the= fiberglass cowling bows out due to pressure in the intake duct, I am loos= ing cooling. I think I can check this by tying the plane down REAL WELL,= running the engine up to high power setting and looking into the cowl exi= t. If I see daylight below the radiator, I know I have blow-by. Fourth, the prop is so big, that the engine can=E2=80=99t pull the plane= through the air enough to get fast and create better cooling flow. If I= have to keep full power and can only generate 70 kts, the radiator will= never keep up. =20 Looking for inputs and comments from the group. =20 Chris =20 From: shipchief@aol.com [mailto:shipchief@aol.com]=20 Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 1:06 AM To: candtmallory@embarqmail.com Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again =20 C&T; WOW! That's exotic! I presume you have a Sam James Rotary cowl? I built a= chin scoop for a griffin radiator, but it's just a simple scoop with no= upper lip. I have the stock VAN's RV-8 cowl, so I take oil cooler air from the right= cowl cheek; it looks like you have the oil cooler on the right side and= take that air from the right side of the chin scoop? I too did concept testing on my partially completed scoops and diffusers.= Once they proved good I continued with the finish work, and you know what= ? they worked even better as finished parts than the tape and cardboard te= st peices. =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Chris and Terria To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sun, Oct 24, 2010 6:16 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again Gents, =20 I=E2=80=99ve finally installed my new radiator and built the ductwork. Th= e sides and top are completed with fiberglass, the bottom is just the foam= , covered with duct tape. It will hold the shape, and can=E2=80=99t fall= out or move. So tomorrow I test it out. =20 I=E2=80=99ll post the results tomorrow. =20 Chris =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.l= ancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =20 ----------MB_8CD42D5175C54F2_14F0_87828_Webmail-d104.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Maybe you should make a= water manometer and check the pressure differential through your heat hea= t exchangers. I'll bet your outlet is not big enough, or might be restrict= ive due to it's configuration.
 
What type of aircraft is this engine in?
 
good luck, hope you get it sorted out soon. Sounds like you have some= good ideas of what the problem(s) might be.
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: shipchief@aol.com
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 8:20 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again

I had similar trouble with heating, althoug= h I never got out of the yard, much less in the air. I separated the= air paths to and from the radiator and the oil cooler. I needed to do this to isolate the problems. My= oil cooler hot air exits the right cowl side, thru louvers. The oil coole= r air inlet diffuser made the biggest improvement, the exit louvers turned= out to be important, and improved oil cooling too. I think isolating the= systems made it possible to track down the problems. Every little bit tha= t makes an improvement can be made as a permanent part, then move for= ward.




-----Original Message-----
From: Chris and Terria <= candtmallory@embarqmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 6:43 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] FW: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again

Yes,= I have split the inlet in the cowl.  In the picture, the smaller (ri= ght) portion goes up to the oil cooler.  The larger (left) portion is= for the water cooler.  You are right on all your presumptions, Sam= James cowl, griffin radiator, oil cooler on the right side of the engine.=
&nbs= p;
I fl= ew her again today, but didn=E2=80=99t get great results.  Here is th= e data:
&nbs= p;
Rene= sis, RD-1C, BIG FAT CATTO prop (76 x 88)
Stat= ic RPM max =3D 5000
67*= outside air temp
Roll= ing down the runway, the max RPM was 5300
Best= speed I got was 70 KTS
At= 1500 feet, I pulled the power back with water temp at 210 (it peaked at= 230, but by then, I was at idle)
Pull= ed closed and landed, 190 on both water and oil temp at landing.
&nbs= p;
Wate= r cooler inlet is 36 sq in. 
Exit= at the back of the cowl for water and oil cooling air, and exhaust is 67= sq in.
&nbs= p;
I ha= ve a couple of ideas.  One is that my exit isn=E2=80=99t large enough= , so I am backing up air, and not getting proper cooling.
Seco= nd is that the shape of my duct isn=E2=80=99t good enough.  I think= I can check this using a manometer (may be spelled wrong), but I would li= ke some directions on how to accomplish this.
Thir= d, I may be getting some blow-by at the bottom of my radiator. If the fibe= rglass cowling bows out due to pressure in the intake duct, I am loosing= cooling.  I think I can check this by tying the plane down REAL WELL= , running the engine up to high power setting and looking into the cowl ex= it.  If I see daylight below the radiator, I know I have blow-by.
Four= th, the prop is so big, that the engine can=E2=80=99t pull the plane throu= gh the air enough to get fast and create better cooling flow.  If I= have to keep full power and can only generate 70 kts, the radiator will= never keep up.
&nbs= p;
Look= ing for inputs and comments from the group.
&nbs= p;
Chri= s
&nbs= p;
F= rom: shipchief@aol.com [mailto:shipchief@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 1:06 AM
To: candtmallory@emb= arqmail.com
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again
 
C&am= p;T;
WOW!= That's exotic! I presume you have a Sam James Rotary cowl? I built a chin= scoop for a griffin radiator, but it's just a simple scoop with no upper= lip.
I ha= ve the stock VAN's RV-8 cowl, so I take oil cooler air from the right cowl= cheek; it looks like you have the oil cooler on the right side and take= that air from the right side of the chin scoop?
I to= o did concept testing on my partially completed scoops and diffusers. Once= they proved good I continued with the finish work, and you know what? the= y worked even better as finished parts than the tape and cardboard test pe= ices.
 
 
-----Original Message= -----
From: Chris and Terria <= candtmallory@embarqmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Oct 24, 2010 6:16 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again
Gents,
 
I=E2=80=99ve finally installed my new radiator and= built the ductwork.  The sides and top are completed with fiberglass= , the bottom is just the foam, covered with duct tape.  It will hold= the shape, and can=E2=80=99t fall out or move.  So tomorrow I test= it out.
 
I=E2=80=99ll post the results tomorrow.
 
Chris  
-- Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:  =
 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81=
/lists/flyrotary/List.html 
----------MB_8CD42D5175C54F2_14F0_87828_Webmail-d104.sysops.aol.com--