X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.145] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4542030 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:21:39 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.145; envelope-from=shipchief@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.199]) by imr-da03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o9Q3KtdV011426 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:20:55 -0400 Received: from core-ddb003b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-ddb003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.52.73]) by mtaomg-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id A77EEE000081 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:20:55 -0400 (EDT) References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] FW: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again X-AOL-IP: 24.19.204.151 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: shipchief@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CD42D3ED7D95F2_588_B2BB_webmail-d017.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 32823-STANDARD Received: from 24.19.204.151 by webmail-d017.sysops.aol.com (205.188.181.30) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:20:51 -0400 Message-Id: <8CD42D3EC377992-588-4B53@webmail-d017.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [24.19.204.151] Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:20:52 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:472857056:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c74cc64917304a This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8CD42D3ED7D95F2_588_B2BB_webmail-d017.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I had similar trouble with heating, although I never got out of the yard, m= uch less in the air. I separated the air paths to and from the radiator and= the oil cooler. I needed to do this to isolate the problems. My oil cooler= hot air exits the right cowl side, thru louvers. The oil cooler air inlet = diffuser made the biggest improvement, the exit louvers turned out to be im= portant, and improved oil cooling too. I think isolating the systems made i= t possible to track down the problems. Every little bit that makes an impro= vement can be made as a permanent part, then move forward. -----Original Message----- From: Chris and Terria To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 6:43 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] FW: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again Yes, I have split the inlet in the cowl. In the picture, the smaller (righ= t) portion goes up to the oil cooler. The larger (left) portion is for the= water cooler. You are right on all your presumptions, Sam James cowl, gri= ffin radiator, oil cooler on the right side of the engine. =20 I flew her again today, but didn=E2=80=99t get great results. Here is the = data: =20 Renesis, RD-1C, BIG FAT CATTO prop (76 x 88) Static RPM max =3D 5000 67* outside air temp Rolling down the runway, the max RPM was 5300 Best speed I got was 70 KTS At 1500 feet, I pulled the power back with water temp at 210 (it peaked at = 230, but by then, I was at idle) Pulled closed and landed, 190 on both water and oil temp at landing. =20 Water cooler inlet is 36 sq in. =20 Exit at the back of the cowl for water and oil cooling air, and exhaust is = 67 sq in. =20 I have a couple of ideas. One is that my exit isn=E2=80=99t large enough, = so I am backing up air, and not getting proper cooling. Second is that the shape of my duct isn=E2=80=99t good enough. I think I c= an check this using a manometer (may be spelled wrong), but I would like so= me directions on how to accomplish this. Third, I may be getting some blow-by at the bottom of my radiator. If the f= iberglass cowling bows out due to pressure in the intake duct, I am loosing= cooling. I think I can check this by tying the plane down REAL WELL, runn= ing the engine up to high power setting and looking into the cowl exit. If= I see daylight below the radiator, I know I have blow-by. Fourth, the prop is so big, that the engine can=E2=80=99t pull the plane th= rough the air enough to get fast and create better cooling flow. If I have= to keep full power and can only generate 70 kts, the radiator will never k= eep up. =20 Looking for inputs and comments from the group. =20 Chris =20 From: shipchief@aol.com [mailto:shipchief@aol.com]=20 Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 1:06 AM To: candtmallory@embarqmail.com Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again =20 C&T; WOW! That's exotic! I presume you have a Sam James Rotary cowl? I built a c= hin scoop for a griffin radiator, but it's just a simple scoop with no uppe= r lip. I have the stock VAN's RV-8 cowl, so I take oil cooler air from the right c= owl cheek; it looks like you have the oil cooler on the right side and take= that air from the right side of the chin scoop? I too did concept testing on my partially completed scoops and diffusers. O= nce they proved good I continued with the finish work, and you know what? t= hey worked even better as finished parts than the tape and cardboard test p= eices. =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Chris and Terria To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sun, Oct 24, 2010 6:16 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again Gents, =20 I=E2=80=99ve finally installed my new radiator and built the ductwork. The= sides and top are completed with fiberglass, the bottom is just the foam, = covered with duct tape. It will hold the shape, and can=E2=80=99t fall out= or move. So tomorrow I test it out. =20 I=E2=80=99ll post the results tomorrow. =20 Chris =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.la= ncaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =20 ----------MB_8CD42D3ED7D95F2_588_B2BB_webmail-d017.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
I had similar trouble with heating, although = I never got out of the yard, much less in the air. I separated the air= paths to and from the radiator and the oil cooler. I needed to do this to isolate the problems. My oil c= ooler hot air exits the right cowl side, thru louvers. The oil cooler air i= nlet diffuser made the biggest improvement, the exit louvers turned out to = be important, and improved oil cooling too. I think isolating the systems m= ade it possible to track down the problems. Every little bit that makes an = improvement can be made as a permanent part, then move forward.




= -----Original Message-----
From: Chris and Terria <candtmallory@embarqmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 6:43 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] FW: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again

Yes, = I have split the inlet in the cowl.  In the picture, the smaller (righ= t) portion goes up to the oil cooler.  The larger (left) portion is fo= r the water cooler.  You are right on all your presumptions, Sam James= cowl, griffin radiator, oil cooler on the right side of the engine.=
 = ;
I fle= w her again today, but didn=E2=80=99t get great results.  Here is the = data:
 = ;
Renes= is, RD-1C, BIG FAT CATTO prop (76 x 88)
Stati= c RPM max =3D 5000
67* o= utside air temp
Rolli= ng down the runway, the max RPM was 5300
Best = speed I got was 70 KTS
At 15= 00 feet, I pulled the power back with water temp at 210 (it peaked at 230, = but by then, I was at idle)
Pulle= d closed and landed, 190 on both water and oil temp at landing.
 = ;
Water= cooler inlet is 36 sq in. 
Exit = at the back of the cowl for water and oil cooling air, and exhaust is 67 sq= in.
 = ;
I hav= e a couple of ideas.  One is that my exit isn=E2=80=99t large enough, = so I am backing up air, and not getting proper cooling.
Secon= d is that the shape of my duct isn=E2=80=99t good enough.  I think I c= an check this using a manometer (may be spelled wrong), but I would like so= me directions on how to accomplish this.
Third= , I may be getting some blow-by at the bottom of my radiator. If the fiberg= lass cowling bows out due to pressure in the intake duct, I am loosing cool= ing.  I think I can check this by tying the plane down REAL WELL, runn= ing the engine up to high power setting and looking into the cowl exit.&nbs= p; If I see daylight below the radiator, I know I have blow-by.
Fourt= h, the prop is so big, that the engine can=E2=80=99t pull the plane through= the air enough to get fast and create better cooling flow.  If I have= to keep full power and can only generate 70 kts, the radiator will never k= eep up.
 = ;
Looki= ng for inputs and comments from the group.
 = ;
Chris=
 = ;
Fr= om: shipchief@aol.com [mailto:shipchief@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 1:06 AM
To: candtmallory@emba= rqmail.com
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again
 
C&= ;T;
WOW! = That's exotic! I presume you have a Sam James Rotary cowl? I built a chin s= coop for a griffin radiator, but it's just a simple scoop with no upper lip= .
I hav= e the stock VAN's RV-8 cowl, so I take oil cooler air from the right cowl c= heek; it looks like you have the oil cooler on the right side and take that= air from the right side of the chin scoop?
I too= did concept testing on my partially completed scoops and diffusers. Once t= hey proved good I continued with the finish work, and you know what? they w= orked even better as finished parts than the tape and cardboard test peices= .
 
 
-----Original Message-= ----
From: Chris and Terria <c= andtmallory@embarqmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Oct 24, 2010 6:16 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Ready to fly again
Gents,
 
I=E2=80=99ve finally installed my new radiator and b= uilt the ductwork.  The sides and top are completed with fiberglass, t= he bottom is just the foam, covered with duct tape.  It will hold the = shape, and can=E2=80=99t fall out or move.  So tomorrow I test it out.=
 
I=E2=80=99ll post the results tomorrow.
 
Chris 
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