X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.169.203] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.10) with ESMTP id 4541932 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:01:11 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.169.203; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o9Q10PqE024052 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:00:25 -0400 Received: from Lehanover@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.ed9.a13263a (43887) for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-m19.mail.aol.com (magic-m19.mail.aol.com [172.21.136.208]) by cia-dc04.mx.aol.com (v129.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADC048-ab6f4cc628233de; Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:00:19 -0400 From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: <79db7.398ed434.39f78223@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:00:19 EDT Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Water Cooling and Oil Cooling Connection To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_79db7.398ed434.39f78223_boundary" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5381 X-AOL-IP: 173.88.9.178 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Lehanover@aol.com --part1_79db7.398ed434.39f78223_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en =20 In a message dated 10/25/2010 5:07:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =20 bhughes@qnsi.net writes: I have an unusual problem =E2=80=93 my oil temperature is about 40F lower= than my=20 water temperature. I have 2 oil coolers and 1 water radiator.=20 I=E2=80=99m considering converting 1 oil cooler into a water radiator. = Obviously=20 my oil temperature is going to increase, but if the water temperature is= =20 improved significantly will this also help in reducing the rise in oil=20 temperature. So far, my experiments have shown that reducing the oil tem= perature=20 has little effect on water temperature.=20 Does anyone know if reducing their water temperature also reduces oil=20 temperature? =E2=80=93 or are the two systems mostly independent? =20 Jeff Whaley The ideals would be 160-180 water and 160 max oil temps.=20 =20 Water temps track power output slowly. Water (coolant) is taking heat out= =20 of aluminum and can do this at a very high rate (aluminum radiator). So = =20 water temps wander up and down slowly with power changes. =20 The oil is a poor conductor of heat. Hard to heat and hard to cool. The = =20 cast iron rotors are cooled by oil, badly foamed sprayed into the center= holes=20 from the jets in the crank. So rotor temps are difficult to control. And= =20 rotor temps can limit HP if not well controlled.=20 =20 High rotor face temps limit cylinder filling and "in effect" reduce the = =20 engines displacement. Part of rotor cooling is the intake charge absorbing= a=20 lot of heat (Radiant energy) from the rotor face. When this is going on,= the=20 high charge temperatures decrease the charge volume ingested, increase=20 burn rates, and moves you closer to a detonation event. =20 Not usually a factor in NA engines or very low boost turbos. So long as no= =20 other factors are in play, like a spark plug with too high a heat range,= a=20 burr on a ground electrode, best power mixture, (stay lean or rich of bes= t=20 power), ignition advanced too far. Or oil too hot, or carbon build up on= =20 the rotors forming a glow plug. =20 =20 Once you have the oil too hot, it will take a while to get the temps back= =20 down. You must reduce fuel consumption. Hotter oil, more foam, worse=20 conductivity, longer cool down time.=20 =20 Also keep in mind that the over heated water or oil is making the coolers= =20 more efficient, so the effect is not quite as obvious. Too hot is actually= =20 way to hot.=20 =20 In racing I told the driver to short shift when the oil was too hot. Like= =20 180-190. So instead of shifting at 9,600, shift at 9,300 for a lap and see= =20 if it comes down a bit. This never worked out, because the driver never= =20 blinks for 45 minutes and his drivers suit is wet from adrenaline running= out=20 of his nose. So I installed a second dash board with a movie camera point= ed=20 at it. Very informative. Missed shifts, wrong gear, not close to the rev= =20 limit, on the rev limiter, no regard for temps????????????? Like talking= to=20 the cat. =20 Too low an oil temp is one curse I never had. With 3 Setrabs.=20 =20 The actual temps would be nice to see...... =20 Lynn E. Hanover --part1_79db7.398ed434.39f78223_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en <= FONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>
In a message dated 10/25/2010 5:07:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 bhughes@qnsi.net writes:

I have an unusual problem =E2=80=93 my oil temperat= ure is about 40F=20 lower than my water temperature. I have 2 oil coolers and 1 water=20 radiator.

I=E2=80=99m considering converting 1 oil cooler int= o a water=20 radiator.  Obviously my oil temperature is going to increase, but= if the=20 water temperature is improved significantly will this also help in reduc= ing=20 the rise in oil temperature.  So far, my experiments have shown tha= t=20 reducing the oil temperature has little effect on water=20 temperature.

Does anyone know if reducing their water temperatur= e also=20 reduces oil temperature? =E2=80=93 or are the two systems mostly indepen= dent?=20  

Jeff=20 Whaley

The ideals would be 160-180 water and 160 max oil temps.
 
Water temps track power output slowly. Water (coolant) is taking heat= out=20 of aluminum and can do this at a very high rate (aluminum radiator). So=20 water temps wander up and down slowly with power changes.
 
The oil is a poor conductor of heat. Hard to heat and hard to cool.= The=20 cast iron rotors are cooled by oil, badly foamed sprayed into the center= holes=20 from the jets in the crank. So rotor temps are difficult to control. And= rotor=20 temps can limit HP if not well controlled.
 
High rotor face temps limit cylinder filling and "in effect" reduce= the=20 engines displacement. Part of rotor cooling is the intake charge absorbing= a lot=20 of heat (Radiant energy) from the rotor face. When this is going on,= the=20 high charge temperatures decrease the charge volume ingested, increase bur= n=20 rates, and moves you closer to a detonation event.
 
Not usually a factor in NA engines or very low boost turbos. So long= as no=20 other factors are in play, like a spark plug with too high a heat range,= a burr=20 on a ground electrode, best power mixture, (stay lean or rich of best powe= r),=20 ignition advanced too far. Or oil too hot, or carbon build up on the rotor= s=20 forming a glow plug.  
 
Once you have the oil too hot, it will take a while to get the= =20 temps back down. You must reduce fuel consumption. Hotter oil, more= foam,=20 worse conductivity, longer cool down time.
 
Also keep in mind that the over heated water or oil is making the coo= lers=20 more efficient, so the effect is not quite as obvious. Too hot is actually= way=20 to hot.
 
In racing I told the driver to short shift when the oil was too hot.= Like=20 180-190. So instead of shifting at 9,600, shift at 9,300 for a lap and see= if it=20 comes down a bit.  This never worked out, because the driver never bl= inks=20 for 45 minutes and his drivers suit is wet from adrenaline running out of= his=20 nose. So I installed a second dash board with a movie camera pointed at it= . Very=20 informative. Missed shifts, wrong gear, not close to the rev limit, on the= rev=20 limiter, no regard for temps????????????? Like talking to the cat.
 
Too low an oil temp is one curse I never had. With 3 Setrabs.
 
The actual temps would be nice to see......
 
Lynn E. Hanover
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