X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-db02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.96] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.9) with ESMTP id 4511397 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 23:00:48 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.91.96; envelope-from=shipchief@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.8]) by imr-db02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o9J2xq7w007087 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 22:59:54 -0400 Received: from core-ddc003b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-ddc003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.52.137]) by mtaomg-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 48E92E000081 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 2010 22:59:54 -0400 (EDT) References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: The Case For Turbocharging X-AOL-IP: 24.19.204.151 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: shipchief@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CD3D50D6DF67F0_E94_C9DA_webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 32797-STANDARD Received: from 24.19.204.151 by webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com (205.188.181.85) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 18 Oct 2010 22:59:54 -0400 Message-Id: <8CD3D50D6CC5CE8-E94-59B6@webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [24.19.204.151] Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 22:59:54 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:363886720:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29084cbd09aa2822 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8CD3D50D6DF67F0_E94_C9DA_webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tracy; Yes that's true, looking at power vs RPM XY charts where we see a rising cu= rved line for prop power draw, vs the downward bending line for Engine powe= r, but I was actually looking for a worst case of Max expected RPM, vs CATT= O 3200 RPM Max Limit when I used that calculation. I should go back to a Pr= op / Engine chart and do a more accurate estimate for power @ RPM. I have n= ot gotten close to that power level in ground running, my plane is still at= home! I do apreciate your EM having estimated HP & fuel flow readouts. I'm= hoping these will help establish my operating perameters. -----Original Message----- From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sun, Oct 17, 2010 1:33 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The Case For Turbocharging " I simply calculated the prop power draw 180HP / 2700RPM =3D 200HP / 3000 = RPM." Hmmm..., that prop power equation might be a problem. Power absorbed by a= fixed pitch prop varies as the CUBE of RPM, far from a linear function. Tracy On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 1:40 PM, wrote: Kelly: Maybe I'm a bonehead, but those zip files didn't include anything readable = for me.... On the other hand, I'm using a Turbo on my RV-8 prject, so I'm in as far as= selecting a turbo. I finally decided to use a turbo because of Tracy's muffler experiments. I = have a Turbo engine, with the open exhaust ports, so the sound pressure is = very high and would require an extra strong and tough exhaust system (heavy= ). So I decided to use that weight in the form of a Turbo to knock the most= vicious element form the exhaust noise. I hope for a higher rate of climb = as a result of the increased power potential.=20 I realize that all engines have a sweet spot that would be best for cruise = and range, which would co-incide with the engine torque peak RPM and an air= speed less than Vne, so sustained high turbo boost is not practical or desi= red unless 25 gallons per hour fuel flow is expected! That's a pretty short= flight with 42 gallons total fuel aboard. I set my goals to a more attainable level, with a prop that should draw abo= ut 200 HP at 6500 RPM. It's a left hand turning equivalent of the prop for = RV-8s with a 180 HP O-360 Lycoming. I have Tracy's RD-1 2.19:1 4 planet gea= r, so I don't plan to abuse it past the 200 HP limit he has established. I = simply calculated the prop power draw 180HP / 2700RPM =3D 200HP / 3000 RPM. By the way, for you prop chord measuring guys, it's a CATTO 2 blade 68x74 p= rop, with the greatest chord about 6-3/16" falling from 16" thru 20" in fro= m the tip, which is right in front of the cowl cheek edge. This last week I put the wings on and set the incidence, made the fuel tank= attach brackets and fit the flaps & fairings. Now the wings are back off, = getting the fairing platenuts etc.=20 I'm not that far from taking the whole caboodle to the airport!! -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Troyer To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sun, Oct 17, 2010 9:50 am Subject: [FlyRotary] The Case For Turbocharging Group, Perhaps of interest to those us interested in Turbocharging our project= s..........It is from the "SDS" website............. =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo -- omepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ rchive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml ----------MB_8CD3D50D6DF67F0_E94_C9DA_webmail-d040.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Tracy;
Yes that's true, looking at power vs RPM XY charts where we see a risi= ng curved line for prop power draw, vs the downward bending line for Engine= power, but I was actually looking for a worst case of Max expected RPM, vs= CATTO 3200 RPM Max Limit when I used that calculation. I should go back to= a Prop / Engine chart and do a more accurate estimate for power @ RPM= . I have not gotten close to that power level in ground running, = my plane is still at home! I do apreciate your EM having estimated HP = & fuel flow readouts. I'm hoping these will help establish my operating= perameters.



= -----Original Message-----
From: Tracy <tracy@rotaryaviation.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Oct 17, 2010 1:33 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The Case For Turbocharging

" I simply calculated the prop power draw = 180HP / 2700RPM =3D 200HP / 3000 RPM."

Hmmm..., that prop power equation might be a problem.   Power abs= orbed by a fixed pitch prop varies as the CUBE of RPM,  far from a lin= ear function.

Tracy

On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 1:40 PM, &= lt;shipchief@aol.com> wr= ote:
Kelly:
Maybe I'm a bonehead, but those zip files didn't include anything read= able for me....
On the other hand, I'm using a Turbo on my RV-8 prject, so I'm in as f= ar as selecting a turbo.
I finally decided to use a turbo because of Tracy's muffler experiment= s. I have a Turbo engine, with the open exhaust ports, so the sound pressur= e is very high and would require an extra strong and tough exhaust system (= heavy). So I decided to use that weight in the form of a Turbo to knock the= most vicious element form the exhaust noise. I hope for a higher= rate of climb as a result of the increased power potential.
I realize that all engines have a sweet spot that would be best for cr= uise and range, which would co-incide with the engine torque peak RPM = and an airspeed less than Vne, so sustained high turbo boost is not practic= al or desired unless 25 gallons per hour fuel flow is expected! That's a pr= etty short flight with 42 gallons total fuel aboard.
I set my goals to a more attainable level, with a prop that shoul= d draw about 200 HP at 6500 RPM. It's a left hand turning equivalent o= f the prop for RV-8s with a 180 HP O-360 Lycoming. I have Tracy's RD-1= 2.19:1 4 planet gear, so I don't plan to abuse it past the 200 HP limit he= has established. I simply calculated the prop power draw 180HP / 2700= RPM =3D 200HP / 3000 RPM.
By the way, for you prop chord measuring guys, it's a CATTO 2 bla= de 68x74 prop, with the greatest chord about 6-3/16" falling from 16" thru = 20" in from the tip, which is right in front of the cowl cheek edge.
This last week I put the wings on and set the incidence, made the fuel= tank attach brackets and fit the flaps & fairings. Now the wings = are back off, getting the fairing platenuts etc.
I'm not that far from taking the whole caboodle to the airport!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net= >
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Oct 17, 2010 9:50 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] The Case For Turbocharging

Group,
    Perhaps of interest to those us interested in = Turbocharging our projects..........It
is from the "SDS" website.............
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

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