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Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:59:47 -0700
Message-ID: <AANLkTikOYGQ=p17zMDX94Xrs7gAfmQeJfdTO-0xU53wO@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Atkins rotary clogged coling passages
From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Lionel Madore <lionelmadore@gmail.com>, 
	Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Lionel Madore <lionelmadore@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi Dave, You probably don't remember me but I wrote you a thank you note
> last year for your website because of all the great info and it tipped me
> off to a problem I now seem to have like you did. I have two atkins 13b's
> from the batch you got also. I have taken fastidious care of them, fogged
> them every three years and such, but no one before you mentioned anything
> about the cooling.  I talked to Atkins, both Dave and Dan, and they said
> tear down if the passages are pitted.  I inspected several passages, and yes
> there was a a little  "hanging, granular" rust, but no pitting that I could
> see. I assumed my dry climate here helped.  One engine is fairly clear and
> one engine will not allow 35 psi air ( the amount specified for the test by
> atkins) to pass from the block drain to anywhere up. indicating a passage
>  block. Do you have any advice ? I would really appreciate it.I think if
> worse comes to worse I could remove the freeze out plugs and all cooling
> ports and clean it that way until it runs clear, but hopefully there is
> something easier. I really don't want to tear these down and send them off
> to overhaul, but yet I will do what I have to do before putting them in my
> airplane.  I'm forwarding a screen shot of our solid works drawing we are
> using for CNC parts manufacture and stress analysis.  It's actually very
> simple and We think very cool.
> Thanks again,
> Lionel
>

Hi Lionel,

I am afraid that the engine is probably no good.  The rust in mine was so
bad that it took several hours of chipping with a hammer and screwdriver to
remove the rust that filled the chamber (and you cant reach it all), only to
discover that the walls around the o-ring (the thinnest part) had rusted
away.  So not only did I need a re-build, but none of the iron housing were
usable.  I suspect that yours is in the same condition, and was probably
ruined before Atkins sold it to you.  Further, there is no way that he has
been selling bad engines all these years without knowing about it...  yes, I
suspect that he is knowingly selling worthless engine - particularly to the
aviation group, because we are likely to hold them for a while before
discovering the problem - giving him someone else to blame.

I wouldn't let Atkins work on my bicycle, let along something that is going
into my airplane.  I suggest you tear it down yourself and hope some of the
irons are usable (everything else should be fine including apex seals
etc..)   Replace the irons and build it up yourself - a fun rewarding
project you can do first time in a weekend.   Get Bruce Turrentine's video
if you don't have it.  As an alternate you can have it rebuilt by Bruce, or
Mazdatrix, both of whom I would trust.  Probably other reliable builders out
there as well.

-- 
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

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<br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Lionel Madore =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lionelmadore@gmail.com">lionelmador=
e@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Hi Dave, You probably don&#39;t =
remember me but I wrote you a thank you note last year for your website bec=
ause of all the great info and it tipped me off to a problem I now seem to =
have like you did. I have two atkins 13b&#39;s from the batch you got also.=
 I have taken fastidious care of them, fogged them every three years and su=
ch, but no one before you mentioned anything about the cooling. =A0I talked=
 to Atkins, both Dave and Dan, and they said tear down if the passages are =
pitted. =A0I inspected several passages, and yes there was a a little =A0&q=
uot;hanging, granular&quot; rust, but no pitting that I could see. I assume=
d my dry climate here helped. =A0One engine is fairly clear and one engine =
will not allow 35 psi air ( the amount specified for the test by atkins) to=
 pass from the block drain to anywhere up. indicating a passage =A0block. D=
o you have any advice ? I would really appreciate it.I think if worse comes=
 to worse I could remove the freeze out plugs and all cooling ports and cle=
an it that way until it runs clear, but hopefully there is something easier=
. I really don&#39;t want to tear these down and send them off to overhaul,=
 but yet I will do what I have to do before putting them in my airplane. =
=A0I&#39;m forwarding a screen shot of our solid works drawing we are using=
 for CNC parts manufacture and stress analysis. =A0It&#39;s actually very s=
imple and We think very cool.=20
<div>Thanks again,</div>
<div>Lionel</div></blockquote></div>
<div><br>Hi Lionel,</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>I am afraid that the engine is probably no good.=A0 The rust in mine w=
as so bad that it took several hours of chipping with a hammer and screwdri=
ver=A0to remove the rust that filled the chamber (and you cant reach it all=
), only to discover that the walls around the o-ring (the thinnest part) ha=
d rusted away.=A0 So not only did I need a re-build, but none of the iron h=
ousing were usable.=A0 I suspect that yours is in the same condition, and w=
as probably ruined before Atkins sold it to you.=A0 Further, there is no wa=
y that he has been selling bad engines all these years without knowing abou=
t it...=A0 yes, I suspect that he is knowingly selling worthless engine - p=
articularly to the aviation group, because we are likely to hold them for a=
 while before discovering the problem - giving him someone else to blame. <=
/div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>I wouldn&#39;t let Atkins work on my bicycle, let along something that=
 is going into my airplane.=A0 I suggest you tear it down yourself=A0and ho=
pe some of the irons are usable (everything else should be fine including a=
pex seals etc..)=A0=A0 Replace the irons and build it up yourself - a fun r=
ewarding project you can do first time in a weekend.=A0=A0 Get Bruce Turren=
tine&#39;s video if you don&#39;t have it.=A0 As an alternate you can have =
it rebuilt by Bruce, or Mazdatrix, both of whom I would trust.=A0 Probably =
other reliable builders out there as well.<br clear=3D"all">
<br>-- <br>David Leonard<br><br>Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY<br><a href=3D"http:/=
/N4VY.RotaryRoster.net">http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net</a><br><a href=3D"http=
://RotaryRoster.net">http://RotaryRoster.net</a><br></div>

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