X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost01.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.51] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.9) with ESMTP id 4499701 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 09 Oct 2010 15:50:57 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.51; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-85-148-241.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.148.241]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc01) with SMTP id <20101009195018H0100dn8k6e>; Sat, 9 Oct 2010 19:50:18 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.148.241] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: Propeller design. Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 15:50:19 -0400 Message-ID: <2D010DD41557421EA824416F54B92C2F@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01CB67C9.AD8086C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Actn58Yq+Yueq2AmQ8eqGHmTcPfnRgAAwyig X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CB67C9.AD8086C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmmm? I click the link, get the home page, click issue 101, get the cover, click the cover, get either a larger or smaller version of the cover..??? When there is a link, you can see a hand as the curser..there is no hand anywhere on the cover. Just a + or -. Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 3:25 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: Propeller design. Bill, Click on the cover Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo _____ From: Bill Bradburry To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, October 9, 2010 12:56:34 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: Propeller design. How do you download it? All I get is the cover??? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:40 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: Propeller design. Pat, asked to post this to the list - another Lipps article in CONTACT! I'm going there to read it now Ed From: Pat Panzera Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 12:19 PM To: eanderson@carolina.rr.com Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Propeller design. Ed, I can't post to the group so could you please let everyone know that the current issue of CONTACT! Magazine has another Lipps article in it and the entire issue can be downloaded for free off the website. www.ContactMagazine,com Thanks! Pat On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 7:23 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: Yes, a radially different concept for Prop design. I remember when the bi-plane picked up something like a 20 MPH increase in speed with Lipps prop - it had us all drooling to think that perhaps we could gain a 10 MPH increase with our RV aircraft. Unfortunately, in the one example I am somewhat familiar with when put on an Rv-6 the outcome was somewhat disappointing - I think it was a gain of only about 1-2 MPH. Now in all fairness, Paul's admits his design approach is dependent on somewhat untradiational accuracy in engine HP and drag of the platform information - which may have been lacking in this first attempt. However, since there has not been a flood of aircraft with the Lipps prop, I'm inclined to believe that it has not yet reach the promise that first seemed likely. While folks can point to the 20 mph increase in the bi plane's performance, I can't help but wonder if perhaps the original prop on the bi plane may have been a poor choice whereupon replacing it with the Lipps (better matched) make the performance gain seem all related to the Lipps prop rather than replacing what may have been a poor original choice - but, just spectulation on my part. I really wanted to see the Lipps prop deliver all it initially seemed to promise, but I can't find any data yet to support its initial promise - at least on the type platforms and speeds we normally fly. It's the first really different approach to prop design I've seen since - well, since the Wright brothers {:>) If anybody has a source for information that indicates my impression is incorrect regarding its performance on Rv type aircraft (or similar), I would like to receive it. Thanks Ed From: Lehanover@aol.com Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 9:53 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Propeller design. http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-02_elippse.asp I sat through a talk by Paul Lipps at Gene Nevada at the alternative engine seminar put on by Contact Magazine several years ago. He flew in his home built, with his propeller. Its outer blades were the size of a 12" ruler. Imagine model sail plane wings, or bread knife blades. He placed split tennis balls on the tips so guests did not stab themselves on the blades. Later, he helped a guy design new wings for a biplane racer, and those wings looked just like his propeller blades. It had a 4 bladed Lipps propeller as well. Not mentioned was the low wetted area of the blades would allow greater span with less drag. The high angle of attack at the root allowed playing card sized cooling inlets. In the event of failed engine his prop has less than a 3rd of the frontal area of a conventional prop. Not exactly full feathering, but better than anything else. So, if the blade has less drag for each unit of lift, then you could add span until you get close to the ground, and then add blade count until you have accounted for all of the available HP. Then you port the rotary to get more HP. Warning, looking at a Lipps propeller blade may hurt your mind...................... http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-02_elippse.asp Lynn E. Hanover ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CB67C9.AD8086C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hmmm?

I click the link, get the home = page, click issue 101, get the cover, click the cover, get either a larger or = smaller version of the cover….???

 

When there is a link, you can see a = hand as the curser….there is no hand anywhere on the cover.  Just = a + or -.

 

Bill

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Saturday, October = 09, 2010 3:25 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: Propeller design.

 

Bill,

  Click on the cover
 

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA = JD2" = (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E= 50 Turbo

 

 

From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, October 9, = 2010 12:56:34 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: Propeller design.

How do you download it?  All I = get is the cover???

 

Bill B

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Saturday, October = 09, 2010 12:40 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: Propeller design.

 

Pat, asked to post this to the list - another Lipps = article in CONTACT!

 

I'm going there to read it = now

 

Ed

 

Ed,

 

 

Thanks!

 

Pat

On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 7:23 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:

Yes, a radially different concept = for Prop design.  I remember when the bi-plane picked up something like = a 20 MPH increase in speed with Lipps prop - it had us all drooling to think = that perhaps we could gain a 10 MPH increase with our RV aircraft.  Unfortunately, in the one example I am somewhat familiar with when put = on an Rv-6 the outcome was somewhat disappointing - I think it was a gain of = only about 1-2 MPH.

 

=

Now in all fairness, Paul's admits his design approach is dependent on somewhat untradiational = accuracy in engine HP and drag of the platform information - which may have been = lacking in this first attempt.  However, since there has not been a flood of = aircraft with the Lipps prop, I'm inclined to believe that it has not yet reach = the promise that first seemed likely.

 

=

While folks can point to the 20 = mph increase in the bi plane's performance, I can't help but wonder if perhaps the = original prop on the bi plane may have been a poor choice whereupon replacing it = with the Lipps (better matched) make the performance gain seem all related to = the Lipps prop rather than replacing what may have been a poor original = choice - but, just spectulation on my part.

 

=

I really wanted to see the Lipps = prop deliver all it initially seemed to promise, but I can't find any data = yet to support its initial promise - at least on the type platforms and speeds = we normally fly.  It’s the first really different approach to = prop design I've seen since - well, since the Wright brothers = {:>)

 

=

If anybody has a source for = information that indicates my impression is incorrect regarding its performance on = Rv type aircraft (or similar), I would like to receive = it.

 

=

Thanks

=

 

=

Ed

 

Sent: Saturday, = October 09, 2010 9:53 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Propeller design.

 

=

http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/art= icles/2009-02_elippse.asp

 

=

I sat through a talk by Paul Lipps = at Gene Nevada at the alternative engine seminar put on by Contact Magazine several years ago.

 

=

He flew in his home built, = with his propeller. Its outer blades were the size of a 12" ruler. Imagine = model sail plane wings, or bread knife blades. He placed split tennis balls on = the tips so guests did not stab themselves on the = blades.

 

=

Later, he helped a guy design new = wings for a biplane racer, and those wings looked just like his propeller =

blades. It had a 4 bladed Lipps = propeller as well.

 

=

Not mentioned was the low wetted = area of the blades would allow greater span with less drag. The high angle of = attack at the root allowed playing card sized cooling inlets. =

 

=

In the event of failed engine his = prop has less than a 3rd of the frontal area of a conventional = prop.

Not exactly full feathering, but = better than anything else.

 

=

So, if the blade has less drag for = each unit of lift, then you could add span until you get close to the ground, = and then add blade count until you have accounted for all of the available = HP. Then you port the rotary to get more HP.

 

=

Warning, looking at a Lipps = propeller blade may hurt your = mind......................

 

=

 

=

Lynn E. = Hanover

 

=

 

=

 

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