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Message-ID: <524007.45539.qm@web83910.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 19:31:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
Subject: Turbos and Wideband Sensors
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Group,=0A=A0=A0Interesting information from a site about the construction o=
f a 400+ hp =0Aturbo=A0Harley Davidson =0A=0Abuilt for Bonneville speed tri=
als...........A very extensive site but what was =0Avery interesting=A0 to =
me =0A=0Aand perhaps others of our group flying or planning to fly with a t=
urbo was the =0Ainfo below=A0stating=0Athat wideband oxygen sensors are not=
 suitable for turbo engines...........This =0Ais just a small part=0Aof the=
 turbo portion of this site and more interesting info is at the link =0Abel=
ow..........FWIW=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/bonneville2.htm#=
turbo=0A=0A=0AWhy EGT and Narrowband.... Not Wideband for Turbos=0AAs you c=
an see from the chart a Bosch LSU 4 wideband sensor has a 15% error if =0As=
ubjected to 2 Bar exhaust pressure. On turbos you have to mount a wideband =
=0Asensor after the turbo which is a big problem because turbos, at least i=
n race =0Aapplications, use short dump tubes and this is way too close to o=
xygen-rich =0Aatmospheric air. On our race bikes we use our RSR Air Fuel Ra=
tio Gauge which is =0Anot affected by exhaust pressure. On our Bonneville B=
ullett we run two single =0Awire high temperature Bosch O2 sensors in addit=
ion to the dual egt ORCA Turbo =0ADash. Wideband LSU 4 sensors can be damag=
ed with egts greater than 1500 Deg F. =0AWe run above this.=0AA second reas=
on you use egt on turbos is that, if you are running leaded race =0Agas, an=
y O2 sensor, narrow or wideband, will become contaminated, resulting in =0A=
false readings. This can happen very quickly or maybe 10 hours later depend=
ing =0Aon the fuel used. When fouled, they render false lean readings. It i=
s better to =0Awatch and record high egt temperatures which are completely =
unaffected by either =0Apressure or racing fuels.=0A=0A=A0=0AKelly Troyer=
=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM=
2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1=
4pt"><DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: #00000=
0; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>Group,</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;I=
nteresting information from a site about the construction of a 400+ hp turb=
o&nbsp;Harley Davidson </DIV>=0A<DIV>built for Bonneville speed trials.....=
......A very extensive site but what was very interesting&nbsp; to me </DIV=
>=0A<DIV>and perhaps others of our group flying or planning to fly with a t=
urbo was the info below&nbsp;stating</DIV>=0A<DIV>that wideband oxygen sens=
ors are not suitable for turbo engines...........This is just a small part<=
/DIV>=0A<DIV>of the turbo portion of this site and more interesting info is=
 at the link below..........FWIW</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;<A href=3D"http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/bonneville2.htm#turbo">http=
://www.rbracing-rsr.com/bonneville2.htm#turbo</A></DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P><FONT size=3D5>Why EGT and Narrowband....=
 Not Wideband for Turbos</FONT></P>=0A<P><IMG border=3D0 alt=3D"" src=3D"ht=
tp://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/orcadash_lsu4.jpg" width=3D600 height=3D518=
></P>=0A<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D4>As you can see from the chart a Bosc=
h LSU 4 wideband sensor has a 15% error if subjected to 2 Bar exhaust press=
ure. On turbos you have to mount a wideband sensor after the turbo which is=
 a big problem because turbos, at least in race applications, use short dum=
p tubes and this is way too close to oxygen-rich atmospheric air. On our ra=
ce bikes we use our <A href=3D"http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rsrgauge.htm" re=
l=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank><FONT color=3D#810081>RSR Air Fuel Ratio Gauge=
</FONT></A> which is not affected by exhaust pressure. On our <A href=3D"ht=
tp://www.rbracing-rsr.com/bonneville2.htm" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank><=
FONT color=3D#810081>Bonneville Bullett</FONT></A> we run two single wire h=
igh temperature Bosch O2 sensors in addition to the dual egt ORCA Turbo Das=
h. Wideband LSU 4 sensors can be damaged with egts greater than 1500 Deg F.=
 We run above this.</FONT></P>=0A<P align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D4>A second re=
ason you use egt on turbos is that, if you are running leaded race gas, any=
 O2 sensor, narrow or wideband, will become contaminated, resulting in fals=
e readings. This can happen very quickly or maybe 10 hours later depending =
on the fuel used. When fouled, they render false lean readings. It is bette=
r to watch and record high egt temperatures which are completely unaffected=
 by either pressure or racing fuels.</FONT><BR></P>=0A<P align=3Dleft>&nbsp=
;</P></DIV>=0A<P>Kelly Troyer<BR><STRONG><FONT size=3D4>"DYKE DELTA JD2"</F=
ONT> <FONT size=3D1>(Eventually)</FONT></STRONG></P>=0A<P>"13B ROTARY"_ Eng=
ine<BR>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2<BR>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold</P>=0A<P>"TUR=
BONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo</P>=0A<DIV></DIV></DIV></div></body></html>
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