X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.9) with ESMTP id 4494742 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:29:25 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=Pa7Yp5IGPw0isBXBq+gaGcKMGLELYDnV27WxD07AD1I= c=1 sm=0 a=EQ0CqolR7yIA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=bgJmbWim5vaDIf-zhvgA:9 a=e0DNL-8xB9DKXGy0OPeWnxaJFFQA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=HZJGGiqLAAAA:8 a=nm1wbMrUD9bjJFpwPQsA:9 a=UJ0a_1n1HMlp47ozqZQA:7 a=KRLPumsZ4sNfNLpi612fVWxPivYA:4 a=HeoGohOdMD0A:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:51124] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 71/7B-19863-1FCEBAC4; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 03:28:49 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 23:28:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01CB64E5.0F34D480" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CB64E5.0F34D480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kelly, this is nothing more than a SWAG, but one of the larger motor had = these specs Monster Power 160 (63M57)=20 It could handle 2700 watts. At 16 Volts it would take 2700/16 =3D 168 amps input to generate 2700 = watts. So even if you assume it was only 50 % as effective as an alternator and = after the voltage drop you would get across the diode array, it would = appear that 60 Amps at 13 volts would not be too wild a guess. These motor = wind at high rpms but then so doe our alternators. My main concern would be whether these motor using for relative short = duration flights - would provide the mechanical reliability at hours, = days, weeks, months, years of high continous rpm. I don't think the = electronics would be a problem, but not as comfortable about 1. Mechanical reliability under the stress (hot engine compartments, = hours of high rpm running) 2. Cooling mechanism - I don't see any cooling fans like an auto = alternator But must admit 22 oz and 2.5 inches in diameter would sure make them = attractive for aircraft use if my concerns are invalid Ed From: Kelly Troyer=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:39 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators Lynn, Any idea what amp output would be for your motor used as an = alternator after diode array=20 and regulated to 12-14 volts ??............. =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: "Lehanover@aol.com" To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 4:50:00 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Permanent Magnet Alternators In a message dated 10/5/2010 4:47:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, = echristley@nc.rr.com writes: Lynn, do you have any documentation stating a max RPM? -- In the tech data the KV rating times the voltage applied gives you the = prop RPM per volt. Usually 11.7 or 22 volts from Lipo batteries.=20 Virtually unlimited RPM as an alternator, as no copper is moving at all. = No brushes to wear out or sparking. For example a 670KV motor with 11.7 volts and a medium size prop about = an 11" by 6" will turn up 7,839 RPM. You can hover a 5 pound 60" = wingspan plane with that. They don't even get hot. Mine was $28.50. Lynn E. Hanover ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CB64E5.0F34D480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kelly, this is nothing more than a SWAG, but one = of the=20 larger motor had these specs
 
Monster Power 160 (63M57)
 
It could handle 2700 watts.
 
At 16 Volts it would take 2700/16 =3D  168 = amps input=20 to generate 2700 watts.
 
So even if you assume it was only 50 % as = effective as an=20 alternator and after the voltage drop you would get across the diode = array, it=20 would appear
that 60 Amps at 13 volts would not be too wild a = guess.  These motor wind at high rpms but then so doe our=20 alternators.
 
My main concern would be whether these motor = using for=20 relative short duration flights - would provide the mechanical = reliability at=20 hours, days, weeks,  months, years of high continous rpm.  I = don't=20 think the electronics would be a problem, but not as comfortable=20 about
 
1.  Mechanical reliability under the stress = (hot=20 engine compartments, hours of high rpm running)
2.  Cooling mechanism - I don't see any = cooling fans=20 like an auto alternator
 
But must admit 22 oz and 2.5 inches in diameter = would sure=20 make them attractive for aircraft use if my concerns are = invalid
 
Ed

From: Kelly Troyer
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:39 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Permanent Magnet=20 Alternators

Lynn,
   Any idea what amp output would be for your = motor=20 used as an alternator after diode array
and regulated to 12-14 volts ??.............
 

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo



From: "Lehanover@aol.com" <Lehanover@aol.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 = 4:50:00=20 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Permanent Magnet Alternators

In a message dated 10/5/2010 4:47:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 echristley@nc.rr.com writes:
Lynn, do=20 you have any documentation stating a max=20 RPM?

--
In the tech data the KV rating times the voltage applied gives you = the prop=20 RPM per volt. Usually 11.7 or 22 volts from Lipo batteries.
 
Virtually unlimited RPM as an alternator, as no copper is moving at = all. No=20 brushes to wear out or sparking.
 
For example a 670KV motor with 11.7 volts and a medium size prop = about an=20 11" by 6" will turn up 7,839 RPM. You can hover a 5 pound 60" wingspan = plane=20 with that. They don't even get hot. Mine was $28.50.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
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