X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.9) with ESMTP id 4494738 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:20:53 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=lu/RhtYP0ChAeUxMEPBris12a71TWT5f9yvo3GNwP9w= c=1 sm=0 a=y0sYPKC0gEIA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=r1ClD_H3AAAA:8 a=Pwkr7UzCv18ogPm9LsEA:9 a=sts_kAB4DTln43pIt5M4KyMgANgA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=pedpZTtsAAAA:8 a=glYVDZ00AAAA:8 a=Qz7kyWd1S3G7R94UdEoA:9 a=kZygDfNEnMeQoj43YooA:7 a=BNj6wqbD_rCZXvZPQ_Tg6n8s9YMA:4 a=eJojReuL3h0A:10 a=XCwpvLtFMdsA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:51041] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id AE/FD-14228-0FAEBAC4; Wed, 06 Oct 2010 03:20:17 +0000 Message-ID: <9F094BB22D5E45149BA00878F036D611@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Got Pressure! and really scary moment Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 23:20:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01CB64E3.DDA56930" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01CB64E3.DDA56930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob, for what it's worth. My engine is street ported and I have been = turning mine over both ways for years and at least have not yet = encountered any side seal problem. I suspect that your are right - it = depends how much porting has been done. Unless there is something for = the end of the side seal to catch on (like the edge of a ported intake), = I don't think there is much danger. The obvious question, of course, is = how much porting is too much. Also the Renesis may be considerably = different in this regard Ed From: Bob Perkinson=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:06 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Got Pressure! and really scary moment I have hade Bernie's engine sitting in the garage for the past 3 years. = I have occasionally squirted air tool oil into the rotors and turned = the engine over by hand. It has given me six good chugs each and every = time, but I will add that the garage is on the same air system as the = rest of the house. What I didn't know until Carlos mentioned it at = Tracy's a couple of years ago was not to turn the engine backwards if = you have any type of enlarged porting, the side seals could hang in the = port and break. His demonstration showed how easy it could happen. = Well up until then I would just turn the engine any old way just to get = it around. This engine has been street ported and I hope that I have = not done any damage to the side seals , but I figure that if I have then = the engine would be extremely hard to turn over, and it isn't. Bob Perkinson -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 8:41:15 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Got Pressure! and really scary moment Chris, in hot humid weather when I had my intake manifold off for six = week, I came back and cranked to find absolute NO compression out of = either rotor. Dropping the exhaust and looking through the exhaust port = I could see what appeared to be a light sheen of rust on the rotor. = This happened right after my HALTECH (pre EC) fuel injection system had = failed locking the fuel injectors wide open and raw gasoline poured out = the exhaust - probably cleaning any of the oil that would usually linger = on the insides of the engine. It took me about 4 days by spraying penetrating oil and poking with a = brass bar to work the apex seals loose again - ALL BUT ONE. It finally = took a tear down of the engine and a punch to remove the remaining apex = seal. The moral of the story if you are going to leave the engine open = to a humid environment for any period of time. I would pour some marvel = mystery oil, ATF or something similar into the chambers and rotate the = engine every 2 weeks. So you are probably OK - those seals will stick, most often running the = engine will break them loose, but better they are loose before running = the engine in my opinion. Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com From: Chris Barber=20 Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 11:37 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Got Pressure! and really scary moment Got pressure! That is not a question, that is a statement. I put the = engine back on the plane today and I have oil moving freely and in a = constant stream coming from the front of the engine when I crank the = engine over. I currently have sent all my hoses off to a friends shop in AZ to have = them pressure tested. So it will be a bit before I can try starting it = again. I did have a pretty scary moment. While I was cranking the engine over = and seeing a good stream of oil, I noted that I was only getting four = chugs of air coming out of the rotors instead of six. YIKES. I took a = breath and looked in the spark plug holes in the second chamber where I = could only feel one puff of air coming out. I could visible see all = three apex seals, but who knows. So, I got some penetrant and sprayed = it onto the seals and poked them a bit with a small long probe. They = all seems springy and intact. After this little procedure, I could hear = and feel the six chugs I have come to know. If I get out there tomorrow, I will check to see/hear if all the chugs = are still present. I will keep my fingers crossed. Chris Houston ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01CB64E3.DDA56930 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob, for what it's worth.  My engine is = street ported=20 and I have been turning mine over both ways for years and at least have = not yet=20 encountered any side seal problem.  I suspect that your are right - = it=20 depends how much porting has been done.  Unless there is something = for the=20 end of the side seal to catch on (like the edge of a ported intake), I = don't=20 think there is much danger.  The obvious question, of course, is = how much=20 porting is too much.  Also the Renesis may be considerably = different in=20 this regard
 
Ed

Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 11:06 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Got Pressure! and really scary=20 moment

I have hade Bernie's engine sitting in the garage for the past 3 = years.=20  I have occasionally squirted  air tool oil into the rotors = and turned=20 the engine over by hand.  It has given me six good chugs each and = every=20 time, but I will add that the garage is on the same air system as the = rest of=20 the house.  What I didn't know until Carlos mentioned it at Tracy's = a=20 couple of years ago was not to turn the engine backwards if you have any = type of=20 enlarged porting, the side seals could hang in the port and break. =  His=20 demonstration showed how easy it could happen.  Well up until then = I would=20 just turn the engine any old way just to get it around.  This = engine has=20 been street ported and I hope that I have not done any damage to the = side seals=20 , but I figure that if I have then the engine would be extremely hard to = turn=20 over, and it isn't.

Bob Perkinson



From: Ed Anderson=20 <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 = 8:41:15=20 AM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Got=20 Pressure! and really scary moment

Chris, in hot humid weather when I had my intake = manifold=20 off for six week, I came back and cranked to find absolute NO = compression out of=20 either rotor.  Dropping the exhaust and looking through the exhaust = port I=20 could see what appeared to be a light sheen of rust on the rotor.  = This=20 happened right after my HALTECH (pre EC) fuel injection system had = failed=20 locking the fuel injectors wide open and raw gasoline poured out the = exhaust -=20 probably cleaning any of the oil that would usually linger on the = insides of the=20 engine.
 
It took me about 4 days by spraying penetrating = oil and=20 poking with a brass bar to work the apex seals loose again - ALL BUT = ONE. =20 It finally took a tear down of the engine and a punch to remove the = remaining=20 apex seal.  The moral of the story if you are going to leave the = engine=20 open to a humid environment for any period of time. I would pour some = marvel=20 mystery oil, ATF or something similar into the chambers and rotate the = engine=20 every 2 weeks.
 
So you are probably OK - those seals will stick, = most=20 often running the engine will break them loose, but better they are = loose before=20 running the engine in my opinion.
 
Ed
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson = Electronic=20 Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

From: Chris Barber
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 11:37 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Subject: [FlyRotary] Got Pressure! and really scary=20 moment

Got pressure!  That is not a question, that is a = statement.  I=20 put the engine back on the plane today and I have oil moving freely and = in=20 a constant stream coming from the front of = the engine=20 when I crank the engine over.
 
I currently have sent all my hoses off to a friends shop in = AZ to=20 have them pressure tested. So it will be a bit before I can try = starting it=20 again.
 
I did have a pretty scary moment.  While I was cranking the = engine=20 over and seeing a good stream of oil, I noted that I was only getting = four chugs=20 of air coming out of the rotors instead of six.  YIKES.  I = took a=20 breath and looked in the spark plug holes in the second chamber where I = could=20 only feel one puff of air coming out.  I could visible see all = three apex=20 seals, but who knows.  So, I got some penetrant and sprayed it onto the seals = and poked=20 them a bit with a small long probe.  They all seems springy and intact.  After this little = procedure, I could hear and feel the six = chugs I=20 have come to know.
 
If I get out there tomorrow, I will check to see/hear if all the = chugs are=20 still present.  I will keep my fingers=20 crossed.
 
Chris
Houston
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