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References: <list-4447907@logan.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 07:25:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
Subject: Re:  Lean Operation and new Turbo installation
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-4447907@logan.com>
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Dave,=0A=A0=A0 Have you tried the new iridium plugs as used in the "Renesis=
" =0A?.................=0AKelly Troyer=0A"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=0A"=
RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______=
_________________________=0AFrom: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>=0ATo:=
 Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=0ASent: Sun, Augus=
t 29, 2010 8:34:18 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Lean Operation and new Turbo i=
nstallation=0A=0A=0AWell, I am pleased to report that my turbo, stock housi=
ng with TO4 wheel and =0A60-1 compressor with a fixed open waste gate has l=
asted over 230 hrs without a =0Asingle problem.=A0 The solution to good eno=
ugh?=A0 Make it better.=A0 I just finished =0Amy annual during which I upgr=
aded my turbo to a similar TO4 big shaft wheel, but =0Anow it has a TO4E 50=
-trim compressor and the wastegate flapper and actuator are =0Aback in plac=
e.=A0 Why the change?=A0 Either I am a glutton for punishment or I am =0Ast=
arting to pin down this turbo issue.=A0 For those of you not familiar with =
my =0Aturbo history, here is a quick recap:=0AFirst turbo - the stock secon=
d generation=A0with waste gate flapper =0Ainstalled,=A0ridden hard and put =
away wet...=A0 it was run at full throttle at high =0Aaltitudes, often at p=
eak EGT.=A0 It lasted 70 hrs before the turbine wheel fell =0Aapart and bro=
ke off.=A0 The thought at the time was that the stock turbo was just =0Atoo=
 small for this heavy duty abuse and was overspeeding at altitude.=0ASecond=
 turbo - small shaft TO4 wheel with 60-1 compressor and removed waste gate =
=0Aflapper.=A0 It was also run mostly at peak EGT but the power produced wa=
s somewhat =0Alower because of the bypassed exhaust.=A0 It lasted about 140=
 hrs until it =0Asuffered the same fate as the first turbo while I was in a=
 long full power =0Adecent (read extra high RPM and EGT's).=A0 My thinking =
at this point is that the =0Ahigh EGT's are primarily the problem.=0AThird =
Turbo - The one I just removed after 230 hrs. =A0Same configuration as the =
=0Asecond but I kept the EGT's under 1600, mostly as lean as I could while =
keeping =0Athe engine running not too rough.=A0 It was also run at pretty l=
ow pressure =0Aratios.=A0 It could=A0only make about 38" MAP on take off an=
d about 40" at full bore =0Adown lot.=A0 At 16k altitude it was down to abo=
ut 22".=A0=A0My curiosity now is =0Aweather I can=A0perhaps increase the bo=
ost and continue to have the turbo last, as =0Along as I keep the EGT's und=
er 1600.=A0 I know, glutton for punishment...=0A=0AOther issues..=0A=0ALean=
 of Peak operation.=A0 During the turbo change I discovered that my stock c=
ast =0Airon exhaust manifold had developed a number of serious cracks and=
=A0some advanced =0Aerosion.=A0 Much of the erosion/oxidation was near the =
mating surface with the =0Aturbo and it had started a small leak.=A0 My con=
cern is that all those hours of =0ALOP operation allows too much oxygen int=
o the exhaust to promote to oxidation =0Aand accelerates the problem.=A0 Th=
e question is, should I start running rich of =0Apeak to prevent rusting aw=
ay the exhaust system components?=A0 ROP operations also =0Aallow me to kee=
p even lower EGT's (for the turbo) and=A0smoother engine running =0A(for th=
e wife).=A0 Turbos and exhaust components that I get from cars usually have=
 =0Athe appearance of being run rich, rather than the dry orange color of t=
he inside =0Aof my components.=A0 The only obvious downside is the obvious =
much increased fuel =0Ausage.=A0 I think that for the next couple hundred h=
ours I have going to have to =0Abite the bullet and fly ROP (while at highe=
r power settings).=A0 Thoughts?=0A=0AS.A.G. is really baffling.=A0 Spark pl=
ugs only seem to be lasting 20-30 hrs before =0ASAG starts kicking in.=A0 N=
oted by a distinct and marked loss of power as I cross =0Athrough about 150=
0' AGL after take off.=A0 The problem is usually intermittent and =0Amildis=
h at first becoming more consistent and remarkable as the hours accumulate =
=0Aon the spark plugs.=A0 The problem is always solved by changing out the =
spark =0Aplugs.=A0 I am switching to colder=A0platinum plugs in order to tr=
y to get them to =0Alast longer.=A0 Perhaps running ROP will help them last=
 long too?=0A=0ATime for a new Prop?=A0 On a test flight yesterday, the eng=
ine was running great.=A0 =0ANo SAG.=A0 At 7000' and 33"MAP I was at 6500 R=
PM,=A0about 1/3 throttle and doing =0A175KTAS.=A0 It is a 64lengthx77pitch =
3-blade Cato, but that is more like an =0Aeffective pitch of closer to 71".=
=A0 I seem to remember being able to get closer =0Ato 185KTAS at 6500 RPM i=
n the past on the same prop but I did have a little =0Ataken off because of=
 the low output of the previous turbo.=A0 After some more =0Aexperience I m=
ay discover that it is time for another new prop.=A0 Might soon =0Acontact =
Paul Lipps, I liked his article in the last issue of Contact! mag.=A0 If =
=0Athat is my worst problem, I am going to be pretty happy.=0A=0ADoing some=
 formation flying with the guys next week that may make its way into a =0Am=
ovie...=0A=0AKeep building!=0A-- =0ADavid Leonard=0A=0ATurbo Rotary RV-6 N4=
VY=0Ahttp://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0Ahttp://RotaryRoster.net=0A
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1=
2pt"><DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>Dave,</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; Have you tried the =
new iridium plugs as used in the "Renesis" ?.................</DIV>=0A<DIV>=
&nbsp;</DIV>Kelly Troyer<BR>"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine<BR>"RWS"_RD1C/EC=
2/EM2<BR>"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=
=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>=0A<DIV=
 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FON=
T-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> David Leonard &lt;wdleonard@gmail.com&gt;<=
BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Rotary motors in air=
craft &lt;flyrotary@lancaironline.net&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:=
 bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sun, August 29, 2010 8:34:18 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=
=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [FlyRotary] Lean Operation and n=
ew Turbo installation<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<DIV>Well, I am pleased to report th=
at my turbo, stock housing with TO4 wheel and 60-1 compressor with a fixed =
open waste gate has lasted over 230 hrs without a single problem.&nbsp; The=
 solution to good enough?&nbsp; Make it better.&nbsp; I just finished my an=
nual during which I upgraded my turbo to a similar TO4 big shaft wheel, but=
 now it has a TO4E 50-trim compressor and the wastegate flapper and actuato=
r are back in place.&nbsp; Why the change?&nbsp; Either I am a glutton for =
punishment or I am starting to pin down this turbo issue.&nbsp; For those o=
f you not familiar with my turbo history, here is a quick recap:</DIV>=0A<D=
IV>First turbo - the stock second generation&nbsp;with waste gate flapper i=
nstalled,&nbsp;ridden hard and put away wet...&nbsp; it was run at full thr=
ottle at high altitudes, often at peak EGT.&nbsp; It lasted 70 hrs before t=
he turbine wheel fell apart and broke off.&nbsp; The thought at the time wa=
s that the stock turbo was just too small for this heavy duty abuse and was=
 overspeeding at altitude.</DIV>=0A<DIV>Second turbo - small shaft TO4 whee=
l with 60-1 compressor and removed waste gate flapper.&nbsp; It was also ru=
n mostly at peak EGT but the power produced was somewhat lower because of t=
he bypassed exhaust.&nbsp; It lasted about 140 hrs until it suffered the sa=
me fate as the first turbo while I was in a long full power decent (read ex=
tra high RPM and EGT's).&nbsp; My thinking at this point is that the high E=
GT's are primarily the problem.</DIV>=0A<DIV>Third Turbo - The one I just r=
emoved after 230 hrs. &nbsp;Same configuration as the second but I kept the=
 EGT's under 1600, mostly as lean as I could while keeping the engine runni=
ng not too rough.&nbsp; It was also run at pretty low pressure ratios.&nbsp=
; It could&nbsp;only make about 38" MAP on take off and about 40" at full b=
ore down lot.&nbsp; At 16k altitude it was down to about 22".&nbsp;&nbsp;My=
 curiosity now is weather I can&nbsp;perhaps increase the boost and continu=
e to have the turbo last, as long as I keep the EGT's under 1600.&nbsp; I k=
now, glutton for punishment...</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Other issue=
s..</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Lean of Peak operation.&nbsp; During t=
he turbo change I discovered that my stock cast iron exhaust manifold had d=
eveloped a number of serious cracks and&nbsp;some advanced erosion.&nbsp; M=
uch of the erosion/oxidation was near the mating surface with the turbo and=
 it had started a small leak.&nbsp; My concern is that all those hours of L=
OP operation allows too much oxygen into the exhaust to promote to oxidatio=
n and accelerates the problem.&nbsp; The question is, should I start runnin=
g rich of peak to prevent rusting away the exhaust system components?&nbsp;=
 ROP operations also allow me to keep even lower EGT's (for the turbo) and&=
nbsp;smoother engine running (for the wife).&nbsp; Turbos and exhaust compo=
nents that I get from cars usually have the appearance of being run rich, r=
ather than the dry orange color of the inside of my components.&nbsp; The o=
nly obvious downside is the obvious much increased fuel usage.&nbsp; I thin=
k that for the next
 couple hundred hours I have going to have to bite the bullet and fly ROP (=
while at higher power settings).&nbsp; Thoughts?</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV>S.A.G. is really baffling.&nbsp; Spark plugs only seem to be lastin=
g 20-30 hrs before SAG starts kicking in.&nbsp; Noted by a distinct and mar=
ked loss of power as I cross through about 1500' AGL after take off.&nbsp; =
The problem is usually intermittent and mildish at first becoming more cons=
istent and remarkable as the hours accumulate on the spark plugs.&nbsp; The=
 problem is always solved by changing out the spark plugs.&nbsp; I am switc=
hing to colder&nbsp;platinum plugs in order to try to get them to last long=
er.&nbsp; Perhaps running ROP will help them last long too?</DIV>=0A<DIV>&n=
bsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Time for a new Prop?&nbsp; On a test flight yesterday, th=
e engine was running great.&nbsp; No SAG.&nbsp; At 7000' and 33"MAP I was a=
t 6500 RPM,&nbsp;about 1/3 throttle and doing 175KTAS.&nbsp; It is a 64leng=
thx77pitch 3-blade Cato, but that is more like an effective pitch of closer=
 to 71".&nbsp; I seem to remember being able to get closer to 185KTAS at 65=
00 RPM in the past on the same prop but I did have a little taken off becau=
se of the low output of the previous turbo.&nbsp; After some more experienc=
e I may discover that it is time for another new prop.&nbsp; Might soon con=
tact Paul Lipps, I liked his article in the last issue of Contact! mag.&nbs=
p; If that is my worst problem, I am going to be pretty happy.</DIV>=0A<DIV=
>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Doing some formation flying with the guys next week th=
at may make its way into a movie...</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Keep b=
uilding!<BR>-- <BR>David Leonard<BR><BR>Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY<BR>http://N4=
VY.RotaryRoster.net<BR>http://RotaryRoster.net<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></div><=
/body></html>
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