X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.92.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with SMTP id 4443607 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:36:39 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.92.123; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: (qmail 51425 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Aug 2010 19:36:05 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1282764965; bh=xe2TLpQNwEvpxs9oZDWah5XEDZMc1MkFHz8IXjQpPN0=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=askNwVe369wStXWLBotBZduqrLKb8jF751+b+L5gRh/c5sadWJHa1oH6hlpWiZ7bb5g9cP1zTX0HtfLxzmxWWJRNrc2EaV3BCNKqZq9x3NW1sTX830Qk+n50sEzUOpB5yF0acMgdls9V7D+1iuUHXnxOjaNxSlMK4u2HkP19iFQ= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Iu5USkrfz3yaChd1DMvN8eN7+xTZtNc3WuX+/CPkvnBi1qq/IFngSBy7NpTE5e5yHbSBepYKviaCiftFhNPep2uCsiO+YCkFXUV+UP0Q7w4mrAVV05bIJ6T5RJYLu8uY55r9lNJ9uBZxmCPP/bRHaGA5Sf2auesnbaVlv6DwL/M=; Message-ID: <59576.50832.qm@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: c5f0oDwVM1k3r.3bVtWSFoYR9VPkzb07126VZ2PIr_7RDei NvQfmyC7K9U4l7A4piipPhcrRwd1VDj5cs6K.0hJzmcqmYfnI86VeG83r35a r9BRd.lYy9z8lp_GfPZZQBFbdLN2v9z2s7Oa30uvxZAg_NzKsO1i6BSVcy5. U4Snh4Onhwrfu8Fj_e.K4Vsjem11o7td1xfAQX3Y_8Ze9Dpc24V_2E5OvHdz KR1HC0PykBn6pnG.AxKN22d30Fr0X1Dn9IMRbVvRPJr.8eJTa6blbyzQU7ng L1vNbmuwIlUf2TryOLQsAumjMH.gOx7BV_2DUBhcC09UgnDmkTrQHOMj27.S V9zlIbOa2Su_2hutxWEmxoNjH4myOZbcXqvLP Received: from [208.114.39.140] by web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:36:04 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/470 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 12:36:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: Turbo Questions To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-9155473-1282764964=:50832" --0-9155473-1282764964=:50832 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =C2=A0 =0AT4 On Center Turbine Housings=0ATurbonetics T4 On center turbi= ne housings$238.95 =0A21608-65 .96 OC F1-65 mm =0A=C2=A0http://www.tread= stoneperformance.com/index.phtml=0A=0A.96 on center "P" trim (Fi-65mm)=C2= =A0housing source for you "ShopChief" =0A!!...............FWIW=0AKelly Troy= er=0A"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"Mistral"_Backpl= ate/Oil Manifold =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "s= hipchief@aol.com" =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Wed, August 25, 2010 12:25:31 AM=0ASubject= : [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions=0A=0AANOTHER TURBO QUESTION:=0AWhat about= turbo insulation. Dave Leonard, you mentioned it before, and I =0Alistened= . Now I'm ground running (3 hours!!) and under cowl temps after shutdown = =0Aseem high. I have the Van's foil sheeting on the inside of the cowl anyw= here =0Anear the turbo, a sewn insulation cover for the turbo that Dave sai= d would be =0Ainsufficient, and some kevlar-like welder's drop cloth in a s= ingle wrap around =0Athe turbo down pipe. The turbo header is bare with an = aluminum heat shield to =0Akeep direct radiant heat off the motor mount and= lower intake manifold. I'm =0Aafraid to insulate the header,as=C2=A0rotary= exhaust temps are challenging to 321 =0Astainless steel. =0A=0ARight now, = I open the oil door to let heat out after ground runs, and before =0Aadditi= on of the foil, I used to run the shop vac discharge hose in the cowl to = =0Amove some air too. I need a solution that would allow flying to another = =0Adestination, not just back to my hanger where a fan can cool the under-c= owl area =0Aso the fiberglass doesn't melt.=0AAny practical advise?=0A=0A= =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Kelly Troyer =0ATo= : Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Sat, Aug = 21, 2010 9:10 am=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0 = The only possible downside I can see is=C2=A0turbine over-speed at =0Aaltit= ude.........Part of this equation=0Ais based on what rpm your=C2=A0engine w= ill be turning at takeoff and cruise, the =0Aaltitudes you fly=C2=A0and =0A= =0Athe psru ratio you have (2.17 or 2.85) with the 2.85 probably averaging = 600 to =0A1000 rpm higher=C2=A0=0Afor both takeoff and cruise (fuel flow co= ncerns may also=C2=A0be a personal =0Afactor)..........Also your prop=0Ais = a factor depending if it is fixed pitch or constant speed (or in-flight =0A= adjust such as my "IVO").......=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0With an adjust= able pitch prop you can load the engine at a lower rpm and =0Acontrol=C2=A0= turbo boost=0Awith the throttle while being careful to avoid detonation....= .....The bottom =0Aline is only flight testing =0A=0Acan determine exactly = how your turbo will perform in your particular =0Ainstallation.............= .Should =0A=0Ayour .81 a/r ratio turbine housing be a little too tight a .9= 6 a/r ratio "On =0ACenter" housing=C2=A0to fit your =0A=0A"P" trim (F1-65mm= ) turbine wheel is readily available for less than $300.00 and =0Athe=C2=A0= .96 housing is=0A=C2=A0working well for=C2=A0John Slade and his "IVO"=C2=A0= equipped "Cosy"=C2=A0............=C2=A0=0A=0A=C2=A0 Let the group know how = all is working once you get her in the air =0A!!.............FWIW=0AKelly T= royer=0A"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"Mistral"_Bac= kplate/Oil Manifold =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom:= "shipchief@aol.com" =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Wed, August 18, 2010 6:46:46 PM=0ASubje= ct: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions=0A=0ACorrection!!!=0AI just checked my = aircraft manual, and the Turbo has a .81 AR. That's pretty =0Atight for thi= s group discussion. I guess we will see what happens as I run my =0Aengine = at higher power.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: shipchief= @aol.com=0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASe= nt: Wed, Aug 18, 2010 3:49 pm=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions=0A= =0A=0AGeorge Kelly and all;=0AI've been off the list for a while (work) but= today I safety wired the water =0Apump pulley bolts, as discussed in=C2=A0= 'one thing leads to another'.=0AThen I ran my engine for 40 minutes @ 1900= RPM. The low voltage that alerted me =0Ato the pully bolts was still with = me, so I ran the engine with the upper cowl =0Aoff, and climbed out of the = cockpit to have a look. =0A=0AI always sat in the plane while running it be= fore, so this was pretty =0Ainformative. I ran it for a while, more than 20= minutes watching the battery =0Avoltage slowly=C2=A0drop to 11.9 volts, st= ill the engine ran sweet. I checked =0Aalternator output; it was just batte= ry voltage, so nothing. I hooked up a =0Abattery charger and kept running s= o I could watch the belt, feel the intake =0Amanifold and turbo etc. and lo= ok for problem areas. I'm feeling good about my =0Ainstallation becuase it = looks fairly neat and runs smooth and sweet. I'm =0Abeginning to feel that = this is going to be a success story. wink, wink, Tracy. I =0Ajust need to f= inish the airplane ;)=0AAbout the Turbo:=0AI'm running a 60-1 P trim compre= ssor=C2=A0and .97 AR On-Center TO-4 turbine=C2=A0housing=C2=A0( =0Aif I rec= all correctly) with a water cooled bearing. I built the exhaust manifold = =0Asimply because the Fred Brease mount I bought would=C2=A0not accomodate = the cast=C2=A0iron =0AMazda Turbo manifold. =C2=A0I selected the On-Center = turbine because I wanted the =0Adesign flexibility it offered, and in fact = I was able to mount the turbo with =0Athe exhaust oulet facing aft. The dow= n pipe is very short, the intake filter is =0Adirectly on the turbo compres= sor, and to finally get to my point, my turbo is =0Adirect mounted to the e= ngine with a very short but somewhat large volume 321 =0Astainless manifold= . =0A=0AI decided to give up all the waste gates, blow off valves, remote m= ounts, flex =0Ajoints, etc. and followed Kelly Johnson's addage: "Add Light= ness and =0ASimplicate".=0AI installed the battery in the back of my RV-8 b= ecause RV-8's with Lycoming =0AIO-360=C2=A0& constant speed props need to d= o this for CG reasons. I couldn't imagine =0Amy 13BT being lighter. Still,= =C2=A0lightness is required, so I work at it.=C2=A0All =0Athose=C2=A0accout= raments have there place, and maybe I will end up needing some or =0Aall of= them, but I decided to start with none of them and go forth. I'll add =0Aw= hat ever I end up needing.=0AMy turbo air pipe is somewhat long, but it doe= s pass by the left side of the =0Acowl where I could mount an intercooler w= ith air exit, so I have that as a =0Apossibility. If I need a waste gate, I= 'll just cut a hole in the exhaust =0Amanifold and TIG weld in a bypass pip= e with or without some kind of valve....I =0Ahave a spot in mind for that t= oo.=0AI may be over thinking this whole thing, and that is part of why I bu= ild so =0Aslowly.=0ABut I do=C2=A0have 2.5 hours on the EM-2 hobbs meter!! = =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: George Lendich =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft = =0ASent: Wed, Aug 18, 2010 2:03 pm=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questio= ns=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0Kelly,=0ALet us all know how well it goes for you in the r= eal world application. I can't =0Ahelp but feel we are trying to fit a squa= re peg in a round hole with Turbo =0Aapplication to Aviation needs.=0A=C2= =A0=0APersonally for myself, as I have stated before, I feel that I would u= se remote =0Amounted turbo, like some cars=C2=A0use (to reduce the heat and= flow speed to the =0Aturbo) and feed it from a bypass off the exhaust pipe= . The by-pass could be =0Acontrolled manually, for (when required) applicat= ion.=C2=A0A wastegate does the same =0Athing but the exhaust is taken right= up to the turbo and carries the heat with =0Ait. I think this would go a l= ong way in controlling heat and over spinning =0Aissues.=0A=C2=A0=0AHowever= you need the necessary room to make this possible.=0AGeorge (down under)= =0ABob, John and All,=0A>=0A>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Well I have bit = the bullet and made my decision for a =0A>turbo............After much resea= rch, talking to Bob =0A>=0A>and John and conferring with a=C2=A0"Turbonetic= s" dealer I have ordered a TO4E-50 =0A>trim (compressor wheel), =0A>=0A>wet= bearing housing, big shaft "Q" trim (F1-68mm) turbine wheel and=C2=A01.15 = a/r =0A>ratio turbine housing.........=0A>=0A>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The = decision=C2=A0what size turbine wheel and a/r ratio housing was based on th= e =0A>fact that the=C2=A0f1-68mm=0A>turbine and 1.15 a/r housing causes les= s exhaust back pressure than the smaller =0A>wheel (bigger hole) and=0A>wil= l increase rpm less=C2=A0as you increase altitude as opposed to the F1-65mm= wheel =0A>plus the 1.15 a/r ratio=0A>housing will=C2=A0slow rpm increase f= or the same reason............=0A>=0A>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The decision to go= with the 50 trim compressor wheel (Like John)=C2=A0verses the =0A>60-1=C2= =A0wheel (Like Bob)=C2=A0was =0A>=0A>based=C2=A0the "Flow Maps" of both whe= els=C2=A0and my=C2=A0uneducated opinion that the 50 trim =0A>wheel would be= running =0A>=0A>in a more efficient area of the flow map base on the "Air = Consumption Chart" =0A>(lbs per min) of the 1.3L 13B =0A>=0A>that I submitt= ed to the group in a previous post.............Of course for all =0A>practi= cal purposes there is probably=0A>little=C2=A0discernible difference betwee= n any of these turbo configurations =0A>mentioned.............=0A>=0A>=C2= =A0=C2=A0 At least I have livened up the forum for a while =0A>!!..........= ..FWIW..................<:)=0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engi= ne=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A>=0A>=0A>= =0A>=0A>=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "Rogers, Bob J." =0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft = =0A>Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 5:20:49 PM=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo= Questions=0A>=0A>=0A>Yes, I used the Jet-Hot 2000 coating, shown at this l= ink. =0A>http://www.jet-hot.com/headercoatings.html=C2=A0 I think that it i= s very effective to =0A>reduce heat in the engine compartment.=0A>=C2=A0=0A= >It is only applied at the Oklahoma City facility.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Bob=0A>=0A_= _______________________________=0A=0A>From:Rotary motors in aircraft [mailt= o:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of =0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>Sent: Tuesd= ay, August 17, 2010 3:02 PM=0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0A>Subject: [F= lyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Bob,=0A>=C2=A0 Did you have your= turbine housing=C2=A0and exhaust pipe coated with heat resistant=0A>coatin= g and if so what and where ??.............=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Thanks,=0A>=C2=A0= =0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A= >"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A>=C2=A0=0A>=C2=A0=0A>=0A______________= __________________=0A=0A>From:" Rogers, Bob J. " =0A>To: = Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>Sent: Mon, Augus= t 16, 2010 10:57:22 AM=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions=0A>Kelly= ,=0A>=C2=A0=0A>There is one pretty good picture of the turbo installation (= before radiator =0A>baffling) on our EAA Chapter 1246 website at:=C2=A0 =0A= >http://www.eaa1246.org/projectsnplanesdisplay.asp?id=3D10&pic=3D190.=C2=A0= ; Because the =0A>oil drains from the turbo into a sump that is lower than = the oil pan, I must use =0A>an electric pump to transfer the oil back into = the engine oil pan.=C2=A0 Attached is =0A>a view from the front, which show= s the hoses and tubing from the turbo =0A>compressor to the intercooler and= back to the intake manifold.=C2=A0 =0A>=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Bob=0A>=C2=A0=0A>=0A_= _______________________________=0A=0A>From:Rotary motors in aircraft [mailt= o:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of =0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>Sent: Monda= y, August 16, 2010 10:02 AM=0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0A>Subject: [F= lyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Bob,=0A>=C2=A0=C2=A0 I am waitin= g on a clarification=C2=A0 from "Turbonetics" as to what size turbine =0A>w= heel=0A>would=C2=A0turn the least rpm as altitude increases.............I k= now the =C2=A0turbine =0A>housing=0A>a/r ratio is a big factor effecting tu= rbine rpm as=C2=A0we climb but it is not clear =0A>to me=0A>how=C2=A0the tu= rbine wheel diameter and trim factor in.............Air density =0A>lessens= with=0A>altitude but=C2=A0I am not smart enough to know=C2=A0if the larger= or smaller turbine =0A>wheel=0A>will have the highest rpm because of this = factor=C2=A0as we climb ??.........=0A>=C2=A0=0A>=C2=A0 Perhaps I am being = anal about this but and you are probably correct that that =0A>the =0A>=0A>= effect of=C2=A0a 3mm diameter=C2=A0difference between the two turbine wheel= s is slight and =0A>=0A>probably inconsequential...........If any of our mu= lti-talented group members =0A>would =0A>=0A>like to shine some light on th= is please jump in here !!..........=0A>=C2=A0=0A>=C2=A0 On another note do = you happen to have any photos of your 13B/turbo =0A>installation=0A>during = construction that you would care to share with the group ??..........You = =0A>have=0A>a beautiful (to Rotorheads) and well thought out installation w= hich from your =0A>report=0A>is working very well and=C2=A0I am sure others= of the group would like to =0A>plagiarize.....<:)=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Best Regard= s,=C2=A0=0A>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY E= ngine=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>=C2=A0= =0A>=C2=A0=0A>=0A________________________________=0A=0A>From:" Rogers, Bob = J. " =0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>Sent: Fri, August 13, 2010 11:49:06 AM=0A>Subject: [FlyRotar= y] Re: Turbo Questions=0A>Kelly, =0A>=C2=A0=0A>I do not know which wheel is= in my turbo.=C2=A0 I expect the larger wheel (68 mm) to =0A>turn a little = more slowly, since it has a larger surface area to absorb the =0A>exhaust, = but it should not make much difference.=C2=A0 Either one should be OK.=C2= =A0 The =0A>Turbonetics people can probably explain the performance differe= nces between the =0A>two wheel sizes.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Bob=0A>=C2=A0=0A>=0A____= ____________________________=0A=0A>From:Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:f= lyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of =0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>Sent: Thursday= , August 12, 2010 3:44 PM=0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0A>Subject: [Fly= Rotary] Re: Turbo Questions=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Bob,=0A>=C2=A0 Thanks much for the= info.................Just one more =0A>question..............Info from "Tu= rbonetics"=0A>says the 1.15=C2=A0a/r turbine housing is limited to the F1-6= 5 mm or F1-68 mm turbine =0A>wheel.......=0A>=C2=A0 Do you have info as to = what=C2=A0turbine wheel was installed in your 60-1 turbo =0A>??............= ..=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Thanks Again,=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"Dyke Delta"_13B= ROTARY Engine=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold = =0A>=C2=A0=0A>=C2=A0=0A>=0A________________________________=0A=0A>From:" Ro= gers, Bob J. " =0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 1:39:26 PM=0A>Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions=0A>Kelly,=0A>=C2=A0=0A>I limit my takeoff p= ower to no more than 42 =E2=80=9C of manifold pressure (=E2=80=9CMP=E2=80= =9D), =0A>usually just 40=E2=80=9D .=C2=A0 At altitudes of 5,000 feet and a= bove, I generally run no =0A>more than about 36 =E2=80=9C MP (15 GPH) and 1= 80 knots.=C2=A0 Engine RPM is about 5,800.=C2=A0 The =0A>turbo is capable o= f considerably more boost than this, but I have to watch =0A>engine water a= nd oil temps at higher power settings.=C2=A0 I do not want to run more =0A>= than 200 degrees on oil or water and prefer 180 degrees.=C2=A0 I can mainta= in these =0A>temps (even on hot days) with cowl flap settings from closed t= o full open as =0A>long as I keep the power settings at or below those desc= ribed above.=C2=A0 One day, I =0A>climbed to 11,000 feet and my GPS grounds= peed (with a slight tailwind) was 213 =0A>knots.=C2=A0 MP was 36=E2=80=9D, = RPM 6,000.=C2=A0 I have a 68=E2=80=9D diameter x 84 pitch Prince P-tip =0A>= fixed pitch prop coupled to the RWS 2.17/1 reduction unit.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Bob --0-9155473-1282764964=:50832 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A =0A
=0A
=0A

T4 On Center Turbine Housings

=0A

Tur= bonetics T4 On center turbine housings

$238.95
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
21608-65=0A

.96 OC F1-65 mm


 http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/index.phtml
= =0A
 
=0A
.96 on center "P" trim (Fi-65mm) housing s= ource for you "ShopChief" !!...............FWIW
=0A
 
Ke= lly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mist= ral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0A= From: "shipchief@aol.com" <shipchief@aol.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:= Wed, August 25, 2010 12:25:31 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions
=0A
ANOTHER TURBO QU= ESTION:
=0A
What about turbo insulation. Dave Leonard, yo= u mentioned it before, and I listened. Now I'm ground running (3 hours!!) a= nd under cowl temps after shutdown seem high. I have the Van's foil sheetin= g on the inside of the cowl anywhere near the turbo, a sewn insulation cove= r for the turbo that Dave said would be insufficient, and some kevlar-like = welder's drop cloth in a single wrap around the turbo down pipe. The turbo = header is bare with an aluminum heat shield to keep direct radiant heat off= the motor mount and lower intake manifold. I'm afraid to insulate the head= er,as rotary exhaust temps are challenging to 321 stainless steel. =0A
Right now, I open the oil door to let heat out after ground runs= , and before addition of the foil, I used to run the shop vac discharge hos= e in the cowl to move some air too. I need a solution that would allow flyi= ng to another destination, not just back to my hanger where a fan can cool = the under-cowl area so the fiberglass doesn't melt.
=0A
Any practi= cal advise?
=0A


=0A
-----O= riginal Message-----
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Ro= tary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, A= ug 21, 2010 9:10 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions

=0A<= DIV id=3DAOLMsgPart_2_b50f6374-1c3e-4d4e-9016-3a9d9b588d05>=0A=0A= =0A
 Kelly,
=0A
Let us all know how well it goes for you in the real = world application. I can't help but feel we are trying to fit a square peg = in a round hole with Turbo application to Aviation needs.
=0A 
=0A
Personally for myself, as I have stated before, I feel that I wo= uld use remote mounted turbo, like some cars use (to reduce the heat a= nd flow speed to the turbo) and feed it from a bypass off the exhaust pipe.= The by-pass could be controlled manually, for (when required) application.=  A wastegate does the same thing but the exhaust is taken right up to = the turbo and carries the heat with it. I think this would go a long way in= controlling heat and over spinning issues.
=0A
 
=0A
Ho= wever you need the necessary room to make this possible.
=0AGeorge (down under)
=0A=0A
=0A
=0ABob, John and All,
=0A
 
=0A
   &n= bsp; Well I have bit the bullet and made my decision for a turbo......= ......After much research, talking to Bob
=0A
and John and confer= ring with a "Turbonetics" dealer I have ordered a TO4E-50 trim (compre= ssor wheel),
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wet bearing housing, big shaft "Q" trim (F1-68mm= ) turbine wheel and 1.15 a/r ratio turbine housing.........
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     The decision what size= turbine wheel and a/r ratio housing was based on the fact that the f1= -68mm
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turbine and 1.15 a/r housing causes less exhaust back pr= essure than the smaller wheel (bigger hole) and
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will increase = rpm less as you increase altitude as opposed to the F1-65mm wheel plus= the 1.15 a/r ratio
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housing will slow rpm increase for th= e same reason............
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  &nbs= p; The decision to go with the 50 trim compressor wheel (Like John) ve= rses the 60-1 wheel (Like Bob) was
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based the "= Flow Maps" of both wheels and my uneducated opinion that the 50 t= rim wheel would be running
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in a more efficient area of the fl= ow map base on the "Air Consumption Chart" (lbs per min) of the 1.3L 13B =0A
that I submitted to the group in a previous post.............Of= course for all practical purposes there is probably
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little&nb= sp;discernible difference between any of these turbo configurations mention= ed.............
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   At least I ha= ve livened up the forum for a while !!............FWIW..................<= ;:)
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Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A

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=0AFrom: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 5:20= :49 PM
Subject: [FlyRota= ry] Re: Turbo Questions

=0A=0A=0A
= =0A
Yes, I used the Je= t-Hot 2000 coating, shown at this link. http://www.jet-hot.com/headercoatin= gs.html  I think that it is very effective to reduce heat= in the engine compartment.
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It is only applied at the Oklahoma Cit= y facility.
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=0A
Bob
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From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net] On Behalf Of = Kelly Troyer
Sent: T= uesday, August 17, 2010 3:02 PM
To:= Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions
<= /DIV>=0A
 
=0A
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=0ABob,
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  Did you have your turbine housing and exhau= st pipe coated with heat resistant
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=0Acoating and if so what and where ??.............
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Thanks,
 =
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Kelly Troyer
"D= yke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/O= il Manifold
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=0A
 
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<= /FONT> 
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= =0A
=0A
From: " Rogers, B= ob J. " <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <= flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et>
Sent: Mon, Au= gust 16, 2010 10:57:22 AM
Subject:<= /SPAN> [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions
=0A
=0AKelly,<= /DIV>=0A
 
=0A
There= is one pretty good picture of the turbo installation (before radiator baff= ling) on our EAA Chapter 1246 website at:  http://www.eaa1246.org/projectsnplanesdisplay.asp?id=3D= 10&pic=3D190. ; Because the oil drains from the turbo into a s= ump that is lower than the oil pan, I must use an electric pump to transfer= the oil back into the engine oil pan.  Attached is a view from the fr= ont, which shows the hoses and tubing from the turbo compressor to the inte= rcooler and back to the intake manifold. 
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= =0A
Bob<= /DIV>=0A
 
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From:<= /FONT> Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:02 AM=
To: Rotary motors in ai= rcraft
Subject: [FlyRota= ry] Re: Turbo Questions
=0A
=  
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Bob,<= /SPAN>
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  = ; I am waiting on a clarification  from "Turbonetics" as to what size = turbine wheel
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would turn the least rpm as altitude increases.............I know t= he  turbine housing
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a/r ratio is a big factor effecting turbine rpm as we cl= imb but it is not clear to me
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how the turbine wheel diameter and trim factor in..= ...........Air density lessens with
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=0Aaltitude but I am not smart enough to know&nb= sp;if the larger or smaller turbine wheel
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= =0A
will have the highest rpm because of this fa= ctor as we climb ??.........
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  Perhaps I am being anal about this but and you ar= e probably correct that that the
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effect of a 3mm diameter difference betwee= n the two turbine wheels is slight and
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= =0A
probably inconsequential...........If any of= our multi-talented group members would
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= =0A
like to shine some light on this please jump= in here !!..........
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=0A
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  On another note do you happen to have any photos of your 13B/= turbo installation
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during construction that you would care to share with the group ??.= .........You have
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a beautiful (to Rotorheads) and well thought out installation which = from your report
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is working very well and I am sure others of the group would lik= e to plagiarize.....<:)
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Best Regards, 
=0A
=0A
   
=0A
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"= _RD1C/EC2/EM2
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial">"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
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=  
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From: " Rogers= , Bob J. " <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: Rotary motors in aircraft &= lt;flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net>
Sent: Fri,= August 13, 2010 11:49:06 AM
Subjec= t: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions
=0A
= =0A
Kelly,
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=0A
I= do not know which wheel is in my turbo.  I expect the larger wheel (6= 8 mm) to turn a little more slowly, since it has a larger surface area to a= bsorb the exhaust, but it should not make much difference.  Either one= should be OK.  The Turbonetics people can probably explain the perfor= mance differences between the two wheel sizes.
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= =0A
Bob<= /DIV>=0A
 
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From:<= /FONT> Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:44 P= M
To: Rotary motors in a= ircraft
Subject: [FlyRot= ary] Re: Turbo Questions
=0A
 
=0A
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Bob,=
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  Tha= nks much for the info.................Just one more question..............I= nfo from "Turbonetics"
says the 1.15 a/r turbine housing is limited= to the F1-65 mm or F1-68 mm turbine wheel.......
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  Do you have info as to what=  turbine wheel was installed in your 60-1 turbo ??..............
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=  
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Thanks Again,
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=  
=0A
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delt= a"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manif= old
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=  
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= From: " Rogers, Bob J. "= <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&= gt;
Sent: Thu, August 12= , 2010 1:39:26 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Questions
=0A
Kelly,
=0A
 
=0AI limit my takeoff po= wer to no more than 42 =E2=80=9C of manifold pre= ssure (=E2=80=9CMP=E2=80=9D), usually just 40=E2=80=9D .  At altitudes= of 5,000 feet and above, I generally run no more than about 36 =E2=80=9C M= P (15 GPH) and 180 knots.  Engine RPM is about 5,800.  The turbo = is capable of considerably more boost than this, but I have to watch engine= water and oil temps at higher power settings.  I do not want to run m= ore than 200 degrees on oil or water and prefer 180 degrees.  I can ma= intain these temps (even on hot days) with cowl flap settings from closed t= o full open as long as I keep the power settings at or below those describe= d above.  One day, I climbed to 11,000 feet and my GPS groundspeed (wi= th a slight tailwind) was 213 knots.  MP was 36=E2=80=9D, RPM 6,000.&n= bsp; I have a 68=E2=80=9D diameter x 84 pitch Prince P-tip fixed pitch prop coupled to the RWS 2.17/1 reduction unit.
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<= /SPAN> 
=0A
Bob
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