X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost03.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.103] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4396551 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 12:38:39 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.103; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-85-142-250.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.142.250]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc03) with SMTP id <20100717163801H03002umspe>; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 16:38:02 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.142.250] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: P-port Project Update Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 12:38:02 -0400 Message-ID: <0E2B2C91EAEB4D5ABA4D6A00594576B5@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01CB25AC.E5C18A20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acslvxrftj8CUvCCReqTpXjn7+TNJQACypYg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CB25AC.E5C18A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aren't the size numbers on injectors normally given in CCMs (Cubic Centimeters per Minute)? These static flow rate statistics are given at a standard fuel pressure, which is usually 43.5 PSI. Most of us seem to run our fuel pressure lower than 43.5, so our injectors would flow at a lower rate than their spec. Mark, when you set your fuel pressure regulator, do you remember what you set it at? I assume that you have 6 injectors? If they are all the same size (old were 550?), I wonder why you increased them? 60 lbs/hr calculates to 630 CCM for the new injectors. The old injectors, if fuel pressure was set at 43.5 PSI and with a duty cycle of 80%, should have handled 76 HP each at a BFSC of .55. That is a total HP of 456 for your engine. Using the new larger injectors that HP capability would go up to 87 HP per injector at the above PSI and duty cycle for a total HP of 522! Mark are you planning on getting into a drag race with the space shuttle??!! Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 10:48 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: P-port Project Update Kelly, The flow hasn't been recalibrated from the old 550's, but it was reading 12.1 gph. Didn't specifically read the fuel pressure, but it was a couple of ticks above the midpoint on the graph. Yes, I'm running Deka IV 60 lb/hr injectors in the primaries and secondaries. Too quite lately. Mark On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: Mark, What was the gph flow rate of the previous injectors and are you using 60 gph injectors in both primary and secondary positions ??..................Also what fuel pressure are you using ??................Has been very quiet lately..............OshKosh I presume............. Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold _____ From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, July 17, 2010 8:04:58 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] P-port Project Update A Flight Report to Spur a little discussion... For those that haven't been following my project's progress (or lack thereof), I replaced my side-port 20B with a p-ported 20b in January of this year. And have been fighting "issues" ever since. The main problem was a persistent misfire at various rpm. That appears to have been solved with a new CAS bracket and setting the gap to .025". The rest seems to be tuning related. I have finally managed to get it to run smoothly through the rpm range needed for safe flight. So, after a thorough pre-flight, I flew my p-port 3-rotor on Friday. OAT was about 90*F, but coolant stayed below 200 during climb and oil temps were 185*F max, 165-170 in cruise. The p-port engine ran great, except for a little mis-firing around 5700 rpm, which was corrected in flight with auto-tune. Pre-takeoff run-up gave a brief excursion to 6900 rpm. Takeoff run was 6500, running very well, but limited by prop setting. It started to lightly misfire when I dialed the prop back for cruise-climb, so I dialed it back up to 2000 (prop) and it ran smooth again. Once at 3500 and leveled off, I entered auto-tune and brought the rpm down to the 5700 range and let the EM-2 tune the EC-2, map addresses 90 - 92. Afterwards, it ran great throughout the rpm range. (I had "auto-tuned" much of the upper map range on the previous flight.) At 3500 - 4500 MSL, the EFIS was indicating 172-174 TAS at 1800 rpm prop setting, and 201-203 mph per the EM-2. This is consistent with a previous test run I had recently done and represents a 12-14 knot improvement over the side-port motor. The cool thing is that these speeds are in "economy cruise" mode. EM-2 was indicating 12.1 gph, but has not been calibrated since switching to the larger 60 lb./hr injectors. Engine was just purring along at 5500 rpm. There should be a bit more speed on the table as I realized after the flight that I had never closed the cowl flap. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to go fly again real soon to see how she performs with the cowl flap closed. Later on, I plan to run it a bit harder, around 6500 rpm, and see how she performs. I could hit VNE with the old motor if I ran it up to 6700-6800. But since the vast majority of my flights are in the 5200 - 5500 rpm range the 12-14 kt improvement is very good to see. Mark ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CB25AC.E5C18A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Aren’t the size numbers on = injectors normally given in CCMs (Cubic Centimeters per Minute)?  These = static flow rate statistics are given at a standard fuel pressure, which is usually 43.5 PSI.  Most of us seem to run our fuel pressure lower than 43.5, so = our injectors would flow at a lower rate than their = spec.

 

Mark, when you set your fuel = pressure regulator, do you remember what you set it at?  I assume that you = have 6 injectors?  If they are all the same size (old were 550?), I wonder = why you increased them?

 

60 lbs/hr calculates to 630 CCM for = the new injectors.  The old injectors, if fuel pressure was set at 43.5 = PSI and with a duty cycle of 80%, should have handled 76 HP each at a BFSC = of .55.  That is a total HP of 456 for your engine.  Using the new larger = injectors that HP capability would go up to 87 HP per injector at the above PSI = and duty cycle for a total HP of 522!

 

Mark are you planning on getting = into a drag race with the space shuttle??!!

 

Bill B

 

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Saturday, July 17, = 2010 10:48 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = P-port Project Update

 

Kelly, 

 

The flow = hasn't been recalibrated from the old 550's, but it was reading 12.1 gph. =  Didn't specifically read the fuel pressure, but it was a couple of ticks above = the midpoint on the graph.  Yes, I'm running Deka IV 60 lb/hr injectors = in the primaries and secondaries.

Too quite lately.  

 

Mark

 

On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> = wrote:

Mark,

    What was the gph flow rate = of the previous injectors and are you using 60 gph injectors =

in both primary and secondary positions ??..................Also what fuel pressure are = you

using ??................Has been very quiet lately..............OshKosh I presume.............
 

Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

 

 

From: Mark = Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, July 17, 2010 = 8:04:58 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = P-port Project Update


A Flight Report to Spur a little discussion... =

 

For those that haven't been following my project's progress (or = lack thereof), I replaced my side-port 20B with a p-ported 20b in January of = this year.  And have been fighting "issues" ever since. =  The main problem was a persistent misfire at various rpm.  That appears = to have been solved with a new CAS bracket and setting the gap to = .025".  The rest seems to be tuning related.  I have finally managed = to get it to run smoothly through the rpm range needed for safe flight. =  

 

So, after a thorough pre-flight, I flew my p-port 3-rotor on = Friday.  OAT was about 90*F, but coolant stayed below 200 during climb and = oil temps were 185*F max, 165-170 in cruise.  The p-port engine ran = great, except for a little mis-firing around 5700 rpm, which was corrected in = flight with auto-tune.  Pre-takeoff run-up gave a brief excursion to 6900 = rpm.  Takeoff run was 6500, running very well, but limited by prop = setting.  It started to lightly misfire when I dialed the prop back for cruise-climb, so I dialed it back up to 2000 (prop) and it ran smooth = again.  Once at 3500 and leveled off, I entered auto-tune and brought the = rpm down to the 5700 range and let the EM-2 tune the EC-2, map addresses 90 = - 92.  Afterwards, it ran great throughout the rpm range.  (I had "auto-tuned" much of the upper map range on the previous = flight.)  

 

At 3500 - 4500 MSL, the EFIS was indicating 172-174 TAS at 1800 = rpm prop setting, and 201-203 mph per the EM-2.  This is consistent = with a previous test run I had recently done and represents a 12-14 knot = improvement over the side-port motor.  The cool thing is that these speeds are = in "economy cruise" mode.  EM-2 was indicating 12.1 gph, but = has not been calibrated since switching to the larger 60 lb./hr injectors.  Engine was just purring along at 5500 rpm.  There should be a = bit more speed on the table as I realized after the flight that I had never = closed the cowl flap.  Oh well, I guess I'll just have to go fly again = real soon to see how she performs with the cowl flap = closed.

 

Later on, I plan to run it a bit harder, around 6500 rpm, and = see how she performs.  I could hit VNE with the old motor if I ran it up to 6700-6800.   But since the vast majority of my flights are in the = 5200 - 5500 rpm range the 12-14 kt improvement is very good to see. =  

 

Mark

 

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