X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-mb02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.163] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4386744 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 12:06:50 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.207.163; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-mb02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o69G600x025979 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 12:06:00 -0400 Received: from Lehanover@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.d95.f1c8a16 (34931) for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 12:05:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-d24.mail.aol.com (magic-d24.mail.aol.com [172.19.146.158]) by cia-da04.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA044-88734c3748e6a8; Fri, 09 Jul 2010 12:05:58 -0400 From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: <247f6.431bb33.3968a2e6@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 12:05:58 EDT Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Dyno To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_247f6.431bb33.3968a2e6_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.0 VR sub 5203 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 173.88.9.178 X-AOL-IP: 172.19.146.158 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Lehanover@aol.com --part1_247f6.431bb33.3968a2e6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/9/2010 11:10:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, echristley@nc.rr.com writes: Lynn, the dyno sheet looks like a standard dyno run where the engine was run from idle to WOT. In this case, it looks like the carb started to be a restriction between 5500 and 6000 RPM, due to the drop in manifold pressure. The question I have is if anyone has made dyno runs using the engine as we're more likely to use it in an airplane. Has anyone made a run at WOT, and then use the mixture control to vary power? At 5500 RPM, the sheet shows 174 Hp and a BSFC of .55 lb/Hphr. At 6500 RPM, the Hp goes to 195 and the BSFC is back at .55. The airflow is obviously increased, because the Mp dropped. What would happen to the BSFC if the airflow for 6500 RPM is maintained, but the fuel is cut from the 108 lb/hr to the 98 lb/hr used at 5500 RPM? I may (most likely?) just be completely confused about how it all works, but I know that Ed has mentioned that he controls power with mixture; however, I've never seen a dyno sheet that explicitly stated that it was a power curve generated by varying mixture at WOT. It seems like the turbo is a bit small and pressure is dropping off early. You need fuel to help cool the engine and help the turbo. So this was not the last pass before the race. You can have just about any amount of HP you want by just adding boost. The cooling load may be high and the cooling system my prove inadequate. It seemed to me that this was not a true outcome sheet, but were just playing with the engine. It is turbo charged and Clayton Cunningham is/was a world famous builder of piston and rotary engines. I would expect to see A/F at all RPM. And EGT both pipes. Injection was legal in IMSA so no jetting data of course. Injector size or "Pop" pressure would have been nice. Oil temps? Ignition advance? Spark plug brand and gap? It is not typical to have an unidentified engine on the dyno. Bill Jongbloed was a wheel manufacturer. Was this JB001? The engine is not being pressed very hard at all. Apex seals are stock? Carbon? Ceramic? Water temp is of no value because you have a reserve tank of cold water that keeps the temps stable for test repeatability. The un-labled sheet may be the same engine, or, a similar engine. I think this was just the start of an engine program. The idea that this or any engine was expected to last only 6 hours, is suspect. True it will be down a few HP after 6 hours of runs up to 9,300 RPM, but it might also last many race seasons without any further maintenance. Daryl Drummond wanted our engines back after 8 hours to change apex and side seals. He never saw them again. We just did not have the money to do it. I changed the ports so that side seals would not wear off the corners, and the engines stayed tight and strong for two years at a time. Lynn E. Hanover --part1_247f6.431bb33.3968a2e6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 7/9/2010 11:10:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 echristley@nc.rr.com writes:
Lynn,=20 the dyno sheet looks like a standard dyno run where the engine was
r= un=20 from idle to WOT.  In this case, it looks like the carb started to=
be=20 a restriction between 5500 and 6000 RPM, due to the drop in manifold=20
pressure.

The question I have is if anyone has made dyno runs= using=20 the engine as
we're more likely to use it in an airplane.  Has= anyone=20 made a run at
WOT, and then use the mixture control to vary power?&n= bsp;=20 At 5500 RPM, the
sheet shows 174 Hp and a BSFC of .55 lb/Hphr. = At=20 6500 RPM, the Hp goes
to 195 and the BSFC is back at .55.  The= =20 airflow is obviously increased,
because the Mp dropped.  What= would=20 happen to the BSFC if the airflow
for 6500 RPM is maintained, but th= e fuel=20 is cut from the 108 lb/hr to
the 98 lb/hr used at 5500 RPM?

I= may=20 (most likely?) just be completely confused about how it all works,
b= ut I=20 know that Ed has mentioned that he controls power with mixture; =20
however, I've never seen a dyno sheet that explicitly stated that it= was=20
a power curve generated by varying mixture at WOT.
It seems like the turbo is a bit small and pressure is dropping off= early.=20
You need fuel to help cool the engine and help the turbo. So this was= not=20 the last pass before the race. You can have just about any amount of HP yo= u want=20 by just adding boost.
The cooling load may be high and the cooling system my prove=20 inadequate. 

 
It seemed to me that this was not a true outcome sheet, but were just= =20 playing with the engine. It is turbo charged and Clayton Cunningham is/was= a=20 world famous builder of piston and rotary engines.
 
I would expect to see A/F at all RPM. And EGT both pipes. Injection= was=20 legal in IMSA so no jetting data of course. Injector size or "Pop" pressur= e=20 would have been nice.
 
Oil temps?  Ignition advance? Spark plug brand and gap?
 
It is not typical to have an unidentified engine on the dyno. Bill=20 Jongbloed was a wheel manufacturer. Was this JB001?
 
The engine is not being pressed very hard at all.
 
Apex seals are stock? Carbon? Ceramic?
 
Water temp is of no value because you have a reserve tank of cold wat= er=20 that keeps the temps stable for test repeatability.
 
The un-labled sheet may be the same engine, or, a similar engine. I= think=20 this was just the start of an engine program.
 
The idea that this or any engine was expected to last only 6 hours,= is=20 suspect. True it will be down a few HP after 6 hours of runs up to 9,300= RPM,=20 but it might also last many race seasons without any further maintenance.= =20  
 
Daryl Drummond wanted our engines back after 8 hours to change apex= and=20 side seals.
He never saw them again. We just did not have the money to do it. I= =20 changed the ports so that side seals would not wear off the corners,= and=20 the engines stayed tight and strong for two years at a time.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
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