X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4385922 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 08 Jul 2010 18:59:04 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (mail.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.34]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC0E1173556 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 06:58:27 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 264ABBEC01D for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2010 06:58:26 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <1EB62ED34B17458BADEB74AF4B2844CF@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Flight Report Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 08:58:30 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01CB1F44.E6D1AFD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100708-1, 07/08/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CB1F44.E6D1AFD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, The secret to Richards design is an expensive cast iron mould - so if = anything does happen to him, that's the end of it anyway.=20 Although , like Tracy, I admire his efforts as not many people could = accomplish what he has done, I wish I had thought of the Powersport type = carbon steel, oven brazed housings, that Bill Jepson is redesigning for = the homebuilt use. The problem with end housings is the need for strong flat wear surfaces = couple with light weight. Naturally aluminium is light weight but the = only reasonable wear surface to date has been Det-gun application and = that's expensive. Richard opted to go the cast iron wear surface ( = which is very good) and because it is a flat area it has to be thick so = as not to flex under load, this he coupled with a aluminium half = housing. The carbon steel housings that Powersport developed is all = steel, machined to exacting tolerances and brazed together in an over = while being clamped in a jig ( I assume). =20 Although aluminium is lighter than steel, the steel housings are only 1 = lb heavier, I assume because the walls can be thinner. This would still = be lighter than Richards composite housing. There are other technologies coming to the fore like sintered laser = technology where powered metal is laid down in thin layers at a time and = then melted by the laser. This can be done to exacting specification and = comes out much like high quality casts - with high density. Only the = material needed is fused, the other falls from the item as it's removed = from it's container. The thing I like about this technology is that's = there very little machining ( which is expensive) and little waste. = Different materials can be used so as hard points can be built in as the = item is constructed. I would like to see a Titanium rotor built with = hard points ( built in steel strips) for seal areas. I think you will = see much more of this in the future, however I assume it is quite = expense at this stage. Commercial reality drives these technologies, so = we might see these things sooner rather than later - I hope. George ( down under) Step 1 should read, "Machine the aluminum side housings from billet = aluminum per attached drawings." The real issue is that I would hate to see all of Richard's excellent = work lost if anything were to happen to him. It would turn into another = story of some mystical rotary engine stored away in a garage somewhere = for decades, never to run again. The "hairy-chested hero" group needs = to do more to further the rotary movement for those that will follow. = Otherwise, we will keep reinventing the same old wheel over and over = again. Mark On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Tracy Crook = wrote: how about a "how to" manual?=20 After following Richard's impressive effort over the years, I can = just imagine that manual. Step 1. Machine the aluminum side housings from billet aluminum. Step 2 Cast the iron wear surfaces and machine the o-ring = grooves to seal the water jacket area. =20 . . . Step 302 ........... Some projects aren't suited to DIY manuals. If you had the talent & = ability to follow the instructions, you probably wouldn't need the = manual at all. It sure is way beyond what I could tackle. Tracy=20 On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Mark Steitle = wrote: Well then, how about a "how to" manual? =20 Mark On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Richard Sohn = wrote: As soon as someone shows up with a couple million bucks. Richard Sohn N2071U ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 9:22 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flight Report Richard, That works for me, RES12 it is. So, when do you start selling = these little jewels? =20 Mark On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Richard Sohn = wrote: Whatever, I call it the RES12. If there is a 13B based = version in the future it will be a RES13. Richard Sohn N2071U ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 1:19 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flight Report Richard,=20 Then, wouldn't you refer to half a 12A as a 6A? =20 Mark On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Richard Sohn = wrote: Yes Mark, the airframe is my AVID Heavy Hauler, which I flew for = 10 years with a SOOB. Airframe mods are done, and the engine is on the = test stand for shake down runs.=20 I would call that engine a 12B because it uses a 12A = rotor and rotor housing. Richard Sohn N2071U ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CB1F44.E6D1AFD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark,
The secret to Richards design is an = expensive cast=20 iron mould - so if anything does happen to him, that's the end of it = anyway.=20
 
Although , like Tracy, I admire his = efforts as not many people could = accomplish what he=20 has done, I wish I had thought of the Powersport type carbon steel, oven = brazed=20 housings, that Bill Jepson is redesigning for the homebuilt=20 use.
 
The problem with end housings is the = need for=20 strong flat wear surfaces couple with light weight. Naturally = aluminium is=20 light weight but the only reasonable wear surface to date has been = Det-gun=20 application and that's expensive. Richard opted to go the cast iron wear = surface  ( which is very good) and because it is a flat area it has = to be=20 thick so as not to flex under load, this he coupled with a = aluminium  half=20 housing. The carbon steel housings that Powersport developed is all = steel,=20 machined to exacting tolerances and brazed together in an over = while being=20 clamped in a jig ( I assume).  
 
Although aluminium is lighter than = steel, the steel=20 housings are only 1 lb heavier, I assume because the walls can be = thinner.=20 This would still be lighter than Richards composite = housing.
 
There are other technologies coming to = the fore=20 like sintered laser technology where powered metal is laid down in thin = layers=20 at a time and then melted by the laser. This can be done to exacting=20 specification and comes out much like high quality casts - with high = density.=20 Only the material needed is fused, the other falls from the item as it's = removed=20 from it's container. The thing I like about this technology is that's = there very=20 little machining ( which is expensive) and little waste.  Different = materials can be used so as hard points can be built in as the item = is=20 constructed. I would like to see a Titanium rotor built with hard points = ( built=20 in steel  strips) for seal areas. I think you will see much more of = this in=20 the future, however I assume it is quite expense at this = stage. Commercial=20 reality drives these technologies, so we might see these things sooner = rather=20 than later - I hope.
George ( down under)
Step=20 1 should read, "Machine the aluminum side housings from billet = aluminum per=20 attached drawings."

The real issue is that I would hate to see all of Richard's = excellent=20 work lost if anything were to happen to him.  It would turn into = another=20 story of some mystical rotary engine stored away in a garage somewhere = for=20 decades, never to run again.  The "hairy-chested hero" group = needs to do=20 more to further the rotary movement for those that will follow.=20  Otherwise, we will keep reinventing the same old wheel over and = over=20 again.

Mark


On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Tracy Crook = <tracy@rotaryaviation.com>= =20 wrote:
how=20 about a "how to" manual?

After following Richard's = impressive=20 effort over the years, I can just imagine that manual.

Step=20 1.    Machine the aluminum side housings from billet=20 aluminum.
Step 2     Cast the iron wear surfaces = and=20 machine the o-ring grooves to seal the water jacket area. =20
.
.
.
Step 302  ...........

Some projects = aren't=20 suited to DIY manuals.  If you had the talent & ability to = follow=20 the instructions, you probably wouldn't need the manual at = all.  It=20 sure is way beyond what I could tackle.

Tracy

On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Mark = Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
Well=20 then, how about a "how to" manual?  

Mark

On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Richard = Sohn <res12@fairpoint.net> wrote:
As soon as someone shows up = with a couple=20 million bucks.
 
Richard = Sohn
N2071U
----- Original Message ----- =
From: Mark Steitle
To: Rotary motors=20 in aircraft
Sent: Wednesday, July = 07, 2010=20 9:22 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Flight=20 Report

Richard,
 
That works for me, RES12 it is.  So, when do you = start=20 selling these little jewels?   
 
Mark

On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 9:09 AM, = Richard Sohn=20 <res12@fairpoint.net> wrote:
Whatever, I call it the = RES12. If there=20 is a 13B based version in the future it will be a=20 RES13.
 
Richard = Sohn
N2071U
----- Original Message = -----
From:=20 Mark Steitle
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Sent: Tuesday, July = 06, 2010=20 1:19 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Flight Report

Richard,=20

Then, wouldn't you refer to half a 12A as a 6A? =  

Mark

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 12:27 PM, = Richard=20 Sohn <res12@fairpoint.net> = wrote:
Yes Mark,
 
the airframe is my AVID = Heavy=20 Hauler, which I flew for 10 years with a SOOB. Airframe = mods are=20 done, and the engine is on the test stand for shake down = runs.=20
I would call that = engine a 12B=20 because it uses a 12A rotor and rotor = housing.
 
Richard Sohn
N2071U
 

=


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