X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qmta12.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.27.227] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.7) with ESMTP id 4320620 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 20 May 2010 11:47:43 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.27.227; envelope-from=wschertz@comcast.net Received: from omta19.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.76]) by qmta12.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id KoXD1e0051eYJf8ACrnA9K; Thu, 20 May 2010 15:47:10 +0000 Received: from sz0070.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.124]) by omta19.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id KrnA1e0072gfN2s01rnABQ; Thu, 20 May 2010 15:47:10 +0000 Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 15:47:10 +0000 (UTC) From: wschertz@comcast.net To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <1023114663.21583841274370430260.JavaMail.root@sz0070a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Subject: John Downing Injector MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1157517_1398410433.1274370430259" X-Originating-IP: [99.172.49.199] X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.19_GA_3172.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - [unknown] (Win)/5.0.19_GA_3177.RHEL5_64) ------=_Part_1157517_1398410433.1274370430259 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John,=20 I checked some old messages and saw that you were working with Bob White on= a Tachometer problem. This indicates to me that you ARE using the feed fro= m the EC-2 to drive an external Tach. As stated in my former message, I had= a flooding problem because the BM unit was draining enough current to hold= the injector that the EM-2 looks at for RPM open.=20 I discovered the problem by (in a quiet hanger), plugging and unplugging th= e injector connector while power was on to the injectors, but the EC-2 was = OFF. I could hear a distinct "click" on one of the injectors -- it was bein= g grounded through the Tach input.=20 Something to check --=20 Bill Schertz=20 --------------------------------------=20 Do you have anything connected to Bob Whites wire that was labeled TACH out= put? For instance an external TACH? =C2=A0I had an early problem when I had= a Blue Mountain unit and wanted to display the tach results using that con= nection. Turns out the BM unit would hold the injector that that wire reads= open and cause flooding. Tracy had me put a 2.5K resistor in the line, and= it solved the problem.=20 Bill Schertz=20 KIS Cruiser #4045=20 N343BS=20 Phase I testing=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:22 PM=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injection=20 Sounds like a possible wiring cross up John.=C2=A0 YES, the ground wires go= ing to the injectors from the EC-2 do control the on/off of the injectors.= =C2=A0 The injectors has 12 Volts applied to one of its two pins, the other= pin runs to a injector grounding pin on the EC2 (don=E2=80=99t have my dia= gram right handy).=C2=A0 When the EC2 is not running but there is power to = the injectors there will be 12 volts on both sides of the injector.=C2=A0 T= his is because in order for the EC2 to open the injectors it has to complet= e the circuit to ground.=C2=A0 When the EC2 does ground its end of the inje= ctors lead, then current flows through the injector, yanking it open and fu= el flows.=C2=A0 So if there is for some reason power to the injectors and f= or ANY reason one of the injector wires is unintentionally grounded that in= jector will lock full open and if pumps are running will quickly flood your= engine.=C2=A0 The EC2 does not have to be running for this to happen if yo= ur wiring has a short to ground on one (or more) of the wires running from = the injectors to the EC2.=20 =C2=A0=20 So check it out.=C2=A0 It sounds like when you put the fuse in then you are= providing the power to the injectors which appear to have their EC2 side c= ontinuously grounded (at least one of them).=C2=A0 The EC2 when operating w= ill periodically ground the injectors to open them =E2=80=93 but, will not = ground them when turned off (or rather SHOULD NOT).=C2=A0 So check with a v= olt ohm meter between each of your injector leads going to the EC2 (I presu= me there are 4).=C2=A0 Put one lead of the ohm meter =C2=A0on each of the i= njectors wires going to the EC2 and the other lead to a known electrical gr= ound with the ohm meter scale (if its not automatic) set say on 100 Ohms or= thereabouts.=C2=A0 , I am not certain what the ohm reading should be =E2= =80=93 but it should not be very low. =C2=A0if its reading less than 50 ohm= s there is probably something shorted, if the reading is near 1 ohm then it= s almost certain you have a short to ground..=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0In other wo= rds if you have anything indicating that an injector lead to the EC2 is gro= unded then that is the problem.=20 =C2=A0=20 Ed=20 =C2=A0=20 Ed Anderson=20 Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered=20 ------=_Part_1157517_1398410433.1274370430259 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= div style=3D'font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>

John,<= /P>

I checked some old messages and saw that you were working with Bob White= on a Tachometer problem. This indicates to me that you ARE using the feed = from the EC-2 to drive an external Tach. As stated in my former message, I = had a flooding problem because the BM unit was draining enough current to h= old the injector that the EM-2 looks at for RPM open.

 

I discovered the problem by (in a quiet hanger), plugging and unplugging= the injector connector while power was on to the injectors, but the EC-2 w= as OFF. I could hear a distinct "click" on one of the injectors -- it was b= eing grounded through the Tach input.

 

Something to check --

 

Bill Schertz

--------------------------------------

 

 

Do you have anything connected to Bob Whit= es wire that was labeled TACH output? For instance an external TACH?  = I had an early problem when I had a Blue Mountain unit and wanted to displa= y the tach results using that connection. Turns out the BM unit would hold = the injector that that wire reads open and cause flooding. Tracy had me put= a 2.5K resistor in the line, and it solved the problem.
 
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343B= S
Phase I testing

From: Ed Ande= rson
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:22 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injection

Sounds like a possibl= e wiring cross up John.  YES, the ground wires going to the injectors = from the EC-2 do control the on/off of the injectors.  The injectors h= as 12 Volts applied to one of its two pins, the other pin runs to a injecto= r grounding pin on the EC2 (don=E2=80=99t have my diagram right handy).&nbs= p; When the EC2 is not running but there is power to the injectors there wi= ll be 12 volts on both sides of the injector.  This is because in orde= r for the EC2 to open the injectors it has to complete the circuit to groun= d.  When the EC2 does ground its end of the injectors lead, then curre= nt flows through the injector, yanking it open and fuel flows.  So if = there is for some reason power to the injectors and for ANY reason one of t= he injector wires is unintentionally grounded that injector will lock full = open and if pumps are running will quickly flood your engine.  The EC2= does not have to be running for this to happen if your wiring has a short = to ground on one (or more) of the wires running from the injectors to the E= C2.

 

So check it out. = ; It sounds like when you put the fuse in then you are providing the power = to the injectors which appear to have their EC2 side continuously grounded = (at least one of them).  The EC2 when operating will periodically grou= nd the injectors to open them =E2=80=93 but, will not ground them when turn= ed off (or rather SHOULD NOT).  So check with a volt ohm meter between= each of your injector leads going to the EC2 (I presume there are 4). = ; Put one lead of the ohm meter  on each of the injectors wires going = to the EC2 and the other lead to a known electrical ground with the ohm met= er scale (if its not automatic) set say on 100 Ohms or thereabouts.  ,= I am not certain what the ohm reading should be =E2=80=93 but it should no= t be very low.  if its reading less than 50 ohms there is probably som= ething shorted, if the reading is near 1 ohm then its almost certain you ha= ve a short to ground..    In other words if you have anythin= g indicating that an injector lead to the EC2 is grounded then that is the = problem.

 

Ed<= /FONT>

 

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered


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