X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.27.228] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.7) with ESMTP id 4320424 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 20 May 2010 09:19:07 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.27.228; envelope-from=wschertz@comcast.net Received: from omta17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.73]) by qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id KnvM1e0041afHeLAFpJXYz; Thu, 20 May 2010 13:18:31 +0000 Received: from WschertzPC ([71.57.77.95]) by omta17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id KpJT1e00923NHuF8dpJWu1; Thu, 20 May 2010 13:18:31 +0000 Message-ID: <87F695494D92434C89FE2C8C1DB1349A@WschertzPC> From: "Bill Schertz" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injection Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 08:18:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012C_01CAF7F5.063DEBD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012C_01CAF7F5.063DEBD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Do you have anything connected to Bob Whites wire that was labeled TACH = output? For instance an external TACH? I had an early problem when I = had a Blue Mountain unit and wanted to display the tach results using = that connection. Turns out the BM unit would hold the injector that that = wire reads open and cause flooding. Tracy had me put a 2.5K resistor in = the line, and it solved the problem. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing From: Ed Anderson=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:22 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injection Sounds like a possible wiring cross up John. YES, the ground wires = going to the injectors from the EC-2 do control the on/off of the = injectors. The injectors has 12 Volts applied to one of its two pins, = the other pin runs to a injector grounding pin on the EC2 (don't have my = diagram right handy). When the EC2 is not running but there is power to = the injectors there will be 12 volts on both sides of the injector. = This is because in order for the EC2 to open the injectors it has to = complete the circuit to ground. When the EC2 does ground its end of the = injectors lead, then current flows through the injector, yanking it open = and fuel flows. So if there is for some reason power to the injectors = and for ANY reason one of the injector wires is unintentionally grounded = that injector will lock full open and if pumps are running will quickly = flood your engine. The EC2 does not have to be running for this to = happen if your wiring has a short to ground on one (or more) of the = wires running from the injectors to the EC2. =20 So check it out. It sounds like when you put the fuse in then you are = providing the power to the injectors which appear to have their EC2 side = continuously grounded (at least one of them). The EC2 when operating = will periodically ground the injectors to open them - but, will not = ground them when turned off (or rather SHOULD NOT). So check with a = volt ohm meter between each of your injector leads going to the EC2 (I = presume there are 4). Put one lead of the ohm meter on each of the = injectors wires going to the EC2 and the other lead to a known = electrical ground with the ohm meter scale (if its not automatic) set = say on 100 Ohms or thereabouts. , I am not certain what the ohm reading = should be - but it should not be very low. if its reading less than 50 = ohms there is probably something shorted, if the reading is near 1 ohm = then its almost certain you have a short to ground.. In other words = if you have anything indicating that an injector lead to the EC2 is = grounded then that is the problem. =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of John Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:59 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] fuel injection =20 Ed, I ran the engine again after supper tonight until it was warmed up, = with the normal procedures, shut it down and let it sit for 15 minutes = with master off. Turned on the fuel pump, removed the fuse going to the = primary and secondary switches and left the switches in the off position = and started the engine, which started immediately. If I put the fuse in = for the fuel injection, the wire that Bob White said was the fuel = injection, the engine loads up with fuel. I'll do some checking = tomorrow. Does the ground wires going to the injectors from the EC-2 = control the injectors. JohnD ------=_NextPart_000_012C_01CAF7F5.063DEBD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Do you have anything connected to Bob = Whites wire=20 that was labeled TACH output? For instance an external TACH?  I had = an=20 early problem when I had a Blue Mountain unit and wanted to display the = tach=20 results using that connection. Turns out the BM unit would hold the = injector=20 that that wire reads open and cause flooding. Tracy had me put a 2.5K = resistor=20 in the line, and it solved the problem.
 
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser=20 #4045
N343BS
Phase I testing

Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:22 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel injection

Sounds like a = possible=20 wiring cross up John.  YES, the ground wires going to the injectors = from=20 the EC-2 do control the on/off of the injectors.  The injectors has = 12=20 Volts applied to one of its two pins, the other pin runs to a injector = grounding=20 pin on the EC2 (don=92t have my diagram right handy).  When the EC2 = is not=20 running but there is power to the injectors there will be 12 volts on = both sides=20 of the injector.  This is because in order for the EC2 to open the=20 injectors it has to complete the circuit to ground.  When the EC2 = does=20 ground its end of the injectors lead, then current flows through the = injector,=20 yanking it open and fuel flows.  So if there is for some reason = power to=20 the injectors and for ANY reason one of the injector wires is = unintentionally=20 grounded that injector will lock full open and if pumps are running will = quickly=20 flood your engine.  The EC2 does not have to be running for this to = happen=20 if your wiring has a short to ground on one (or more) of the wires = running from=20 the injectors to the EC2.

 

So check it = out. =20 It sounds like when you put the fuse in then you are providing the power = to the=20 injectors which appear to have their EC2 side continuously grounded (at = least=20 one of them).  The EC2 when operating will periodically ground the=20 injectors to open them =96 but, will not ground them when turned off (or = rather=20 SHOULD NOT).  So check with a volt ohm meter between each of your = injector=20 leads going to the EC2 (I presume there are 4).  Put one lead of = the ohm=20 meter  on each of the injectors wires going to the EC2 and the = other lead=20 to a known electrical ground with the ohm meter scale (if its not = automatic) set=20 say on 100 Ohms or thereabouts.  , I am not certain what the ohm = reading=20 should be =96 but it should not be very low.  if its reading less = than 50=20 ohms there is probably something shorted, if the reading is near 1 ohm = then its=20 almost certain you have a short to ground..    In other = words if=20 you have anything indicating that an injector lead to the EC2 is = grounded then=20 that is the problem.

 

Ed

 

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW=20 Rotary Powered

Matthews,=20 NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.r= otaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of John
Sent:=20 Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:59 PM
To: Rotary motors=20 in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] fuel=20 injection

 

Ed, I ran the engine again = after=20 supper tonight until it was warmed up, with the normal procedures, shut = it down=20 and let it sit for 15 minutes with master off.  Turned on the fuel = pump,=20 removed the fuse going to the primary and secondary switches and left = the=20 switches in the off position and started the engine, which started=20 immediately.  If I put the fuse in for the fuel injection, the wire = that=20 Bob White said was the fuel injection, the engine loads up with = fuel.  I'll=20 do some checking tomorrow.  Does the ground wires going to the = injectors=20 from the EC-2 control the injectors. =20 JohnD

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