X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-vw0-f52.google.com ([209.85.212.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.5) with ESMTP id 4233642 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:13:08 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.212.52; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by vws20 with SMTP id 20so846408vws.25 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:12:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=MyypQU0UcYTxMnVXOvBQrv9aHUqqL2cGcHoYcFBt7JI=; b=SVist0ICzxUgWqlMHuyqC0HMf/JeFLsIQW2eux62NhyosR2jWOOnS+1zAxKJI4J4/p N55y8adhIwgBaxp+enREz8HACWpP73jAsJIAVxLAkt6ls0RoyuwJ8xgRt1gXdR7OcWxr KHV0B9oyHj0/AggKKHSKRPY1dhHSidIewea/4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=bazzD7n8o41LNDbJ/EGOjhZ4oZgkVNfuZPlr/6HIKZFugLByFTNhnLNS1rAWAfLdtX yiKcDPoW8YdxKpv8q1066CaCHzIBRvi+nMtrlhH35XvH6M/YEnwlHSPIQg+pjujqFsQ8 o5D8Ig1mICsemuja54J0HKclC3cfei5BxdfIw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.93.79 with SMTP id u15mr1724192vcm.201.1272208352335; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.220.116.3 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:12:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:12:32 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8ddca1f4424cb963 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: getting lost in the tuning process From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363b8142ebd9b704851116ef --0016363b8142ebd9b704851116ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bill, see answers below each question. On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Bill Bradburry w= rote: > You certainly have it right about the better understanding part! :>) > > So, since it has no effect, why, in step 1, do you say, =93with the engin= e > running below the staging point, select mode 6 and turn the program knob > slightly to the left of the 12:00 oclock position and press the program > store switch=94??? > > Is this some kind of arming step?? > Context is everything. That was just an example, not something that I wanted you to blindly follow. Which way you turn the knob depends on the condition on YOUR engine that you are trying to correct. And this is a prepatory step because it WILL affect things when you advance the throttle above the staging point, which is the next step. You then check the results > The mixture is really rich before I start this step. I have the mixture > control knob at probably 9:00 oclock on both sides of 15=94 of map. Is t= his > going to have an effect on that? Or is it just in case the mixture chang= es > when you go from below 15 to above 15? > Again, the exact order you do things in will depend on the starting point o= n your installation. No two are alike so I can't possibly write an exact procedure for every situation. That's why it is important to get a basic understanding of the various modes before you start. In this situation (way rich below and above the staging point) you should have roughly fixed the mixture with Mode 3 at high throttle (24 - 28" MP) then Mode 2 at minimum MP throttle (usually a high idle) before doing Mode 6. If low & high throttle are fairly close at default settings, then start with Mode 6. > With the 4 yellow injectors, where do you recommend the staging point be > set? I have it set now at 15 mostly so I can do stuff like this without > running at high power and causing ground cooling problems. If I get ever= y > thing set and then later change the staging point, will this cause a need > for a do over? > 15 is too low. I used to recommend 16 - 17 inches but I've gradually uppe= d that to around 19 - 20. And yes, if you change the staging point you may very well have to do a lot of things over. > > > I will clear and start over. When would be a good time to call if need b= e? > My schedule is highly variable but you can try most any time between 09:00 and 20:00 eastern. Thanks for the response that helps to clear it up. > Always glad to help Bill. Tracy > By the way, to those carb guys, this is a little confusing, but no way ba= d > enough to justify going with a carburetor!!! > > > > Bill B > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Tracy Crook > *Sent:* Saturday, April 24, 2010 11:17 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: getting lost in the tuning process > > > > *"Next is Secondary Injector Differential adjustment, Mode 6. First I > cleared the large secondary mode. Then I tried to get the mixture mid ra= nge > at <14=94.* *Then I tried to get the mixture mid range at <14=94. This > required a lot of leaning on the mixture knob. Same for above 16=94. So= I > turned the program knob to the right and hit store several times. *" > > I think you need to get a better understanding of how the various modes > work and what the direction of change will be. If you need the mixture t= o > be Leaner, why would you turn the Program knob RIGHT? (Right =3D RICH, = Left > =3D LEAN) > > Also note that Mode 6 will have NO effect on the mixture if you are below > the staging point (which you no doubt were at a MP of 14") It only affec= ts > the mixture above the staging point, ie, when the SECONDARIES are on. > > Next, hitting the Store button multiple times will have no effect in Mode= 6 > unless you CHANGE the position of the program knob before you hit Store. > > Tracy > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 10:57 PM, Bill Bradburry < > bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > I was working on tuning today and I seem to be getting lost. > > I have the Renesis and I recently changed my injectors out from the > Red/Blue to all 4 yellow. These are larger than the Red primary, but > smaller than the blue secondary. The total flow is close to the same for > both. > > First thing I did was check fuel injector flow rate, Mode 3. Between 22 > and 26=94 of manifold pressure that they maintained good mixture with the > mixture knob in the center. So far, so good. > > Next is Secondary Injector Differential adjustment, Mode 6. First I > cleared the large secondary mode. Then I tried to get the mixture mid ra= nge > at <14=94. This required a lot of leaning on the mixture knob. Same for > above 16=94. So I turned the program knob to the right and hit store sev= eral > times. Soon I could move the manifold pressure back and forth over the > staging point and the engine ran smoothly. > > > > But then I found that I could only run the engine at high power with the > mixture knob all the way lean!??? Did I do something wrong? How did thi= s > happen? > > > > I think I am lost. I don=92t really understand what I am trying to > accomplish with the mode 6, and when I ever get to mode 2, I am going to > really be up the understanding creek. > > > > Anyone who would like to enlighten me would be appreciated. > > > > My current plan is to clear it out and start over from the beginning agai= n > tomorrow. > > > > Tracy=92s instructions kind of make me think that he is expecting the > mixture to go rich. My problem is that it is rich to begin with and does= n=92t > seem to really change that much. > > > > Thanks for the assistance! > > > > Bill B > > > --0016363b8142ebd9b704851116ef Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bill,=A0=A0 see answers below each question.

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Bill Bradburry &l= t;bbradburry@bellsouth.net&= gt; wrote:

You certainly = have it right about the better understanding part!=A0 :>)

So, since it h= as no effect, why, in step 1, do you say, =93with the engine running below the staging point, select mode 6 and turn the program knob slightly to the left of the 12:00 oclock position and press the program store switch=94???

Is this some k= ind of arming step??


Con= text is everything.=A0 That was just an example, not something that I wante= d you to blindly follow. =A0 Which way you turn the knob depends on the con= dition on YOUR engine that you are trying to correct.=A0 And this is a prep= atory step because it WILL affect things when you advance the throttle abov= e the staging point, which is the next step.=A0 You then check the results= =A0
=A0

The mixture is= really rich before I start this step.=A0 I have the mixture control knob at probably 9:00 oclock on both sides of 15=94 of map.=A0 Is this going to have an effect on that?=A0 Or is it just in case the mixture changes when you go from below 1= 5 to above 15?

Again, the exac= t order you do things in will depend on the starting point on your installa= tion. No two are alike so I can't possibly write an exact procedure for= every situation.=A0 That's why it is important to get a basic understa= nding of the various modes before you start. =A0

In this situation (way rich below and above the staging point) you shou= ld have roughly fixed the mixture with Mode 3 at high throttle (24 - 28&quo= t; MP) then Mode 2 at minimum MP throttle (usually a high idle) before doin= g Mode 6.=A0 If low & high throttle are fairly close at default setting= s, then start with Mode 6.=A0
=A0

With the 4 yel= low injectors, where do you recommend the staging point be set?=A0 I have it set now at 15 mostly so I = can do stuff like this without running at high power and causing ground cooling problems.=A0 If I get every thing set and then later change the staging point, will this cause a need for a do over?=A0

15 is too low.=A0=A0 I used to recommend 16 - 17 inche= s but I've gradually upped that to around 19 - 20.
And yes, if you c= hange the staging point you may very well have to do a lot of things over.<= br> =A0

=A0

I will clear a= nd start over.=A0 When would be a good time to call if need be?


My schedule is highly variable but you can try most any time bet= ween 09:00 and 20:00 eastern.=A0

Thanks for the response that helps = to clear it up.

Always glad to help Bill.

Tracy
=A0=

By the way, to= those carb guys, this is a little confusing, but no way bad enough to justify going with a carburetor!= !!

=A0

Bill B<= /font>

=A0

=A0

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Saturday, April 24, = 2010 11:17 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: g= etting lost in the tuning process

=A0

"Next is Secondary Injector Di= fferential adjustment, Mode 6.=A0 First I cleared the large secondary mode.=A0 Then I tried to get the mixture mid range at <14=94. Then I tried to= get the mixture mid range at <14=94.=A0 This required a lot of leaning on the mixture knob.=A0 Same for above 16=94.=A0 So I turned the program knob to the right and hit store several times. "

I think you need to get a better understanding of how the various modes wor= k and what the direction of change will be.=A0 If you need the mixture to be Leaner, why would you turn the Program knob RIGHT?=A0=A0 (Right =3D RICH, Left =3D LEAN)

Also note that Mode 6 will have NO effect on the mixture if you are below t= he staging point (which you no doubt were at a MP of 14")=A0 It only affects the mixture above the staging point, ie, when the SECONDARIES are o= n.

Next, hitting the Store button multiple times will have no effect in Mode 6 unless you CHANGE the position of the program knob before you hit Store.
Tracy





On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 10:57 PM, Bill Bradburry <= ;bbradburry@b= ellsouth.net> wrote:

I was working = on tuning today and I seem to be getting lost.=A0

I have the Ren= esis and I recently changed my injectors out from the Red/Blue to all 4 yellow.=A0 These are larger than the Red primary, but smaller than the blue secondary.=A0 The total flow is close to the same for both.

First thing I = did was check fuel injector flow rate, Mode 3.=A0 Between 22 and 26=94 of manifold pressure that they maintained good mixture with the mixture knob in the center.=A0 So far, so good.

Next is Second= ary Injector Differential adjustment, Mode 6.=A0 First I cleared the large secondary mode.=A0 Then I tried to get the mixtur= e mid range at <14=94.=A0 This required a lot of leaning on the mixture knob.=A0 Same for above 16=94.=A0 So I turned the program knob to the right and hit store several times.=A0 Soon I could move the manifold pressure back and forth over the staging point and the engine ran smoothly.=

=A0

But then I fou= nd that I could only run the engine at high power with the mixture knob all the way lean!???=A0 Did I do something wrong?=A0 How did this happen?

=A0

I think I am l= ost.=A0 I don=92t really understand what I am trying to accomplish with the mode 6, and when I ever get to mode 2, I am g= oing to really be up the understanding creek.

=A0

Anyone who wou= ld like to enlighten me would be appreciated.

=A0

My current pla= n is to clear it out and start over from the beginning again tomorrow.

=A0

Tracy=92s instructions kind of make m= e think that he is expecting the mixture to go rich.=A0 My problem is that it is rich to begin with and doesn=92t seem to really change that much.

=A0

Thanks for the= assistance!

=A0

Bill B<= /font>

=A0


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