X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.40] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.5) with ESMTP id 4228830 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 02:26:46 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.40; envelope-from=WRJJRS@aol.com Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-ma02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o3L6QAaa016612 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 02:26:10 -0400 Received: from WRJJRS@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.dac.59192ef (37073) for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 02:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-m18.mail.aol.com (magic-m18.mail.aol.com [172.21.136.206]) by cia-db05.mx.aol.com (v128.3) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB057-90d14bce9a80326; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 02:26:08 -0400 From: WRJJRS@aol.com Message-ID: <2a3ab.6b9b73ed.38fff480@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 02:26:08 EDT Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: cooling for ground runs To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_2a3ab.6b9b73ed.38fff480_boundary" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5046 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 75.210.194.153 X-AOL-IP: 172.21.136.206 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: WRJJRS@aol.com --part1_2a3ab.6b9b73ed.38fff480_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, There are several issues to be concerned with on the all aluminum intermediate housings. (yes those) First: The coatings are fabulously expensive. They are so hard that they must be diamond lapped. Lastly if they aren't perfectly applied they can flake and destroy the engine. On the 20B there are studs that are threaded into the housing, (the thick one), which is much tougher to make safe in aluminum. Our point is that we have a way to make the same intermediate housings out of steel, with only a 1 pound penalty over the aluminum housings. They will be MUCH cheaper than aluminum and have none of the coating drawbacks because they will be gas nitrided just like the standard irons. I believe it was figured one time that an all aluminum engine in a 13B would save 27 pounds. If that was correct the savings with the special steel plates would be 24 pounds with none of the drawbacks. Yes, the plan for any parts we make will be to make them compatible with the standard mazda engine other than P-porting. One of the problems noted in making all the housings aluminum other than cost has been collapse (minor) of the intermediate housings due to heat cycling. There is nothing wrong with good aluminum housing other than the fact that they cost about 2500-3000 dollars EACH. The steel housings would be more like that for all 3 and no flaking even possible. Bill Jepson In a message dated 4/20/2010 7:23:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rv-4mike@cox.net writes: Bill, You mention "steel side plates that will weigh 1 pound more than the aluminum side plates...." Are you talking about the 3 intermediate iron housings? If not, what are you talking about? What is it that makes replicating the iron housings in aluminum so difficult? I realize there is a potential wear issue, but is there no relatively inexpensive means to produce these housings with a hardened or treated wear surface that will survive while otherwise replicating the stock configuration? Seems to me that the hot ticket would be a PP configured engine with all aluminum housings, but otherwise standard Mazda configuration so that it would be plug and play compatible with the stock engine and would use standard available parts (like Tracy's PSRU). That is an engine I'd pay good money for and would seem to hit the sweet spot in providing potentially more power with less weight than the typical 4 cylinder Lyc, without all of the budget busting unobtanium of the original Superlight engine. And I think that is what Brian is getting at. No coincidence that both of us have overweight RV-4s and would like to take some weight off. What am I missing? Mike Wills --part1_2a3ab.6b9b73ed.38fff480_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mike,
There are several issues to be concerned with on the all aluminum=20 intermediate housings. (yes those)
First: The coatings are fabulously expensive. They are so hard that= they=20 must be diamond lapped. Lastly if they aren't perfectly applied they can= flake=20 and destroy the engine. On the 20B there are studs that are threaded into= the=20 housing, (the thick one), which is much tougher to make safe in aluminum.= Our=20 point is that we have a way to make the same intermediate housings out of= steel,=20 with only a 1 pound penalty over the aluminum housings. They will be MUCH= =20 cheaper than aluminum and have none of the coating drawbacks because they= will=20 be gas nitrided just like the standard irons. I believe it was figured one= time=20 that an all aluminum engine in a 13B would save 27 pounds. If that was cor= rect=20 the savings with the special steel plates would be 24 pounds with none of= the=20 drawbacks. Yes, the plan for any parts we make will be to make them compat= ible=20 with the standard mazda engine other than P-porting. One of the problems= noted=20 in making all the housings aluminum other than cost has been collapse (min= or) of=20 the intermediate housings due to  heat cycling. There is nothing wron= g with=20 good aluminum housing other than the fact that they cost about 2500-3000= dollars=20 EACH. The steel housings would be more like that for all 3 and no flaking= even=20 possible.
Bill Jepson
 
In a message dated 4/20/2010 7:23:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,=20 rv-4mike@cox.net writes:
Bill,
 
You mention "steel side plates that= will weigh=20 1 pound more than the aluminum side plates...." Are you talking about th= e 3=20 intermediate iron housings? If not, what are you talking about?
 
What is it that makes replicating the= iron=20 housings in aluminum so difficult? I realize there is a potential w= ear=20 issue, but is there no relatively inexpensive means to produce these hou= sings=20 with a hardened or treated wear surface that will survive while oth= erwise=20 replicating the stock configuration?
 
Seems to me that the hot ticket would= be a PP=20 configured engine with all aluminum housings, but otherwise st= andard=20 Mazda configuration so that it would be plug and play compatible with th= e=20 stock engine and would use standard available parts (like Tracy's PSRU).= That=20 is an engine I'd pay good money for and would seem to hit the sweet spot= in=20 providing potentially more power with less weight than the typical 4=20 cylinder Lyc, without all of the budget busting unobtanium of the= =20 original Superlight engine. And I think that is what Brian is getting at= . No=20 coincidence that both of us have overweight RV-4s and would like to take= some=20 weight off. What am I missing?
 
Mike Wills
 
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