X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.5) with ESMTP id 4228777 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 00:25:08 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.41; envelope-from=SHIPCHIEF@aol.com Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o3L4OUTJ013042 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 00:24:30 -0400 Received: from SHIPCHIEF@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.d0f.6b5dc6f1 (37166) for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 00:24:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-mb01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mb01.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.148]) by cia-ma04.mx.aol.com (v128.3) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA045-5c5e4bce7df512; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 00:24:26 -0400 Received: from webmail-d087 (webmail-d087.sim.aol.com [205.188.181.42]) by smtprly-mb01.mx.aol.com (v128.3) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMB014-5c5e4bce7df512; Wed, 21 Apr 2010 00:24:21 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: cooling for ground runs Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 00:24:22 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 24.19.204.151 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: shipchief@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CCAF21A6E368AD_15E4_FDA3_webmail-d087.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 31509-STANDARD Received: from 24.19.204.151 by webmail-d087.sysops.aol.com (205.188.181.42) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 21 Apr 2010 00:24:22 -0400 Message-Id: <8CCAF21A6D52043-15E4-7D80@webmail-d087.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: SHIPCHIEF@aol.com ----------MB_8CCAF21A6E368AD_15E4_FDA3_webmail-d087.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm thinking an aluminum plate of 6061 could be cut, drilled, milled, then= the wear faces "Nikasil" equivalent electroplated. Is that fairly straightforward if P Ported?=20 -----Original Message----- From: Mike Wills To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Apr 20, 2010 7:22 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: cooling for ground runs Bill, =20 You mention "steel side plates that will weigh 1 pound more than the alumi= num side plates...." Are you talking about the 3 intermediate iron housing= s? If not, what are you talking about? =20 What is it that makes replicating the iron housings in aluminum so difficu= lt? I realize there is a potential wear issue, but is there no relatively= inexpensive means to produce these housings with a hardened or treated we= ar surface that will survive while otherwise replicating the stock configu= ration? =20 Seems to me that the hot ticket would be a PP configured engine with all= aluminum housings, but otherwise standard Mazda configuration so that it= would be plug and play compatible with the stock engine and would use sta= ndard available parts (like Tracy's PSRU). That is an engine I'd pay good= money for and would seem to hit the sweet spot in providing potentially= more power with less weight than the typical 4 cylinder Lyc, without all= of the budget busting unobtanium of the original Superlight engine. And= I think that is what Brian is getting at. No coincidence that both of us= have overweight RV-4s and would like to take some weight off. What am I= missing? =20 Mike Wills From: WRJJRS@aol.com=20 Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:58 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: cooling for ground runs In a message dated 4/18/2010 7:50:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Bktrub@aol.= com writes: What were the original powersport superlight engines? 13B p-port, with the= oil pan mounting flanges cut off, aluminum side housings, mounted with th= e exhaust side down? I'm sure there's more to them than that, but I think= that's what they were, basically. =20 II would have liked to see Powersport make just the engines- forget the wh= ole package- if the engine is light, powerful, and reliable, then homebuil= ders will do the rest.=20 =20 =20 Just my two cents. =20 Brian Trubee Brian,=20 So you can get the straight scoop I'll talk about this. The "Superlite"= engine used HIGHLY modified standard Mazda rotor housings. Almost every= other part was custom. Water inlet location was changed. ALL center and= end plates were aluminum with coatings. The engine used p-ports done the= way they have always done, using o-ring seals. Once done this way they ne= ver had leak problems because the o-rings are designed to handle the heat= cycle. The PSRU was a custom built planetary with a pendrolus damper to= move harmonics outside the operating range. The previously mentioned Mazd= a housings were reversed and the engine ran backward so the prop would tur= n the "right" way. The engine was plugs up and dry sump from the begining.= An absolutely astounding piece of work. That said they would be too expen= sive to sell today. Please remember that this was before Powersport was so= ld to Ratek Machine in Wisconsin. I don't know if they are still producing= anything or not.=20 Steve has come to me to work to save some of the ideas and update them so= there won't be any intention of using the designs exactly as done before.= Our intention is to produce parts to pay for the cost of making them for= ourselves with the potential of it becoming a full business much later.= There is the possibility of making a complete engine, but for now only th= e parts. One item of interest is a steel side plate for the converted stan= dard engine that weighs only 1 pound more than the aluminum side plates,= but can still be nitrided just like the standard sideplate. These will be= for p-ported engines only as there won't be any side ports built in. We= also want to make a similar lightweight 20B intermediate housing for 3 ro= tors using a standard e-shaft. The standard one weighs 45 pounds and even= those have become unobtainium lately. It must be the rolex 24 hour racers= using them up. I have a local shop quoting the parts as we produce models= and drawings as we want them to be. That is all I can say for now, I'll= keep the group posted as we make progress. Bill Jepson ----------MB_8CCAF21A6E368AD_15E4_FDA3_webmail-d087.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
I'm thinking an aluminum plate of 6061 could be cut, drilled, milled,= then the wear faces "Nikasil" equivalent electroplated.
Is that fairly straightforward if P Ported?



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Wills <rv-4mike@cox.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Apr 20, 2010 7:22 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: cooling for ground runs

Bill,
 
You mention "steel side plates that wil= l weigh 1 pound more than the aluminum side plates...." Are you talking ab= out the 3 intermediate iron housings? If not, what are you talking about?<= /FONT>
 
What is it that makes replicating the= iron housings in aluminum so difficult? I realize there is a potential&nb= sp;wear issue, but is there no relatively inexpensive means to produce the= se housings with a hardened or treated wear surface that will survive = ;while otherwise replicating the stock configuration?
 
Seems to me that the hot ticket would= be a PP configured engine with all aluminum housings, but other= wise standard Mazda configuration so that it would be plug and play compat= ible with the stock engine and would use standard available parts (like Tr= acy's PSRU). That is an engine I'd pay good money for and would seem to hi= t the sweet spot in providing potentially more power with less weight than= the typical 4 cylinder Lyc, without all of the budget busting unobta= nium of the original Superlight engine. And I think that is what Brian is= getting at. No coincidence that both of us have overweight RV-4s and woul= d like to take some weight off. What am I missing?
 
Mike Wills

Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:58 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: cooling for ground runs

In a message dated 4/18/2010 7:50:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Bktrub@aol.com writes:
What were the original powersport superlight engines? 13B p-port= , with the oil pan mounting flanges cut off, aluminum side housings,= mounted with the exhaust side down? I'm sure there's more to them than th= at, but I think that's what they were, basically.
 
II would have liked to see Powersport make just the engines- forget= the whole package- if the engine is light, powerful, and reliable, then= homebuilders will do the rest.
 
 
Just my two cents.
 
Brian Trubee
Brian,
 So you can get the straight scoop I'll talk about this. The "Su= perlite" engine used HIGHLY modified standard Mazda rotor housings. Almost= every other part was custom. Water inlet location was changed. ALL center= and end plates were aluminum with coatings. The engine used p-ports done= the way they have always done, using o-ring seals. Once done this way the= y never had leak problems because the o-rings are designed to handle the= heat cycle. The PSRU was a custom built planetary with a pendrolus damper= to move harmonics outside the operating range. The previously mentioned= Mazda housings were reversed and the engine ran backward so the prop woul= d turn the "right" way. The engine was plugs up and dry sump from the begi= ning. An absolutely astounding piece of work. That said they would be too= expensive to sell today. Please remember that this was before Powersport= was sold to Ratek Machine in Wisconsin. I don't know if they are still pr= oducing anything or not.
 Steve has come to me to work to save some of the ideas and upda= te them so there won't be any intention of using the designs exactly as do= ne before. Our intention is to produce parts to pay for the cost of making= them for ourselves with the potential of it becoming a full business much= later. There is the possibility of making a complete engine, but for now= only the parts. One item of interest is a steel side plate for the= converted standard engine that weighs only 1 pound more than the aluminum= side plates, but can still be nitrided just like the standard sideplate.= These will be for p-ported engines only as there won't be any side ports= built in. We also want to make a similar lightweight 20B intermediate hou= sing for 3 rotors using a standard e-shaft. The standard one weighs 45 pou= nds and even those have become unobtainium lately. It must be the rolex 24= hour racers using them up. I have a local shop quoting the parts as we pr= oduce models and drawings as we want them to be. That is all I can say for= now, I'll keep the group posted as we make progress.
Bill Jepson
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