X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao103.cox.net ([68.230.241.43] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.5) with ESMTP id 4228643 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 20 Apr 2010 22:23:17 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.43; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao103.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100421022242.OTDN20088.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2010 22:22:42 -0400 Received: from willsPC ([174.66.169.142]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id 82Ng1e00M34gpFS042Ngvm; Tue, 20 Apr 2010 22:22:40 -0400 X-VR-Score: 0.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=KqzZVGv1/pIBe+XbL3gCBfL8vaFXECOST7Bs1vfp5Gs= c=1 sm=1 a=1AxR2Bxg0C4A:10 a=cPUexvdKvEVW1PN6gG+JiA==:17 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=lGgrfvyPj1qAN67FGn8A:9 a=vOR3agaG20xUe16SDCwA:7 a=xvHkIQC8_AsQngvLxQj9J-oLD08A:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=cmDhcF0hB1UFF5Fq:21 a=fEE6Sk71VKRAczef:21 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=eNUjnzDqa5Fdht6nJq8A:9 a=YMVA_z1UhXeEZCExWl0A:7 a=WcYrR8jPDZgVyAdyvnZtmQN5PdQA:4 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=cPUexvdKvEVW1PN6gG+JiA==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <481415022A12465D9366A5ABC9C18283@willsPC> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: cooling for ground runs Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 19:22:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B9_01CAE0BE.D98FABC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01CAE0BE.D98FABC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, You mention "steel side plates that will weigh 1 pound more than the = aluminum side plates...." Are you talking about the 3 intermediate iron = housings? If not, what are you talking about? What is it that makes replicating the iron housings in aluminum so = difficult? I realize there is a potential wear issue, but is there no = relatively inexpensive means to produce these housings with a hardened = or treated wear surface that will survive while otherwise replicating = the stock configuration? Seems to me that the hot ticket would be a PP configured engine with all = aluminum housings, but otherwise standard Mazda configuration so that it = would be plug and play compatible with the stock engine and would use = standard available parts (like Tracy's PSRU). That is an engine I'd pay = good money for and would seem to hit the sweet spot in providing = potentially more power with less weight than the typical 4 cylinder Lyc, = without all of the budget busting unobtanium of the original Superlight = engine. And I think that is what Brian is getting at. No coincidence = that both of us have overweight RV-4s and would like to take some weight = off. What am I missing? Mike Wills From: WRJJRS@aol.com=20 Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:58 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: cooling for ground runs In a message dated 4/18/2010 7:50:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, = Bktrub@aol.com writes: What were the original powersport superlight engines? 13B p-port, with = the oil pan mounting flanges cut off, aluminum side housings, mounted = with the exhaust side down? I'm sure there's more to them than that, but = I think that's what they were, basically. II would have liked to see Powersport make just the engines- forget = the whole package- if the engine is light, powerful, and reliable, then = homebuilders will do the rest.=20 Just my two cents. Brian Trubee Brian,=20 So you can get the straight scoop I'll talk about this. The "Superlite" = engine used HIGHLY modified standard Mazda rotor housings. Almost every = other part was custom. Water inlet location was changed. ALL center and = end plates were aluminum with coatings. The engine used p-ports done the = way they have always done, using o-ring seals. Once done this way they = never had leak problems because the o-rings are designed to handle the = heat cycle. The PSRU was a custom built planetary with a pendrolus = damper to move harmonics outside the operating range. The previously = mentioned Mazda housings were reversed and the engine ran backward so = the prop would turn the "right" way. The engine was plugs up and dry = sump from the begining. An absolutely astounding piece of work. That = said they would be too expensive to sell today. Please remember that = this was before Powersport was sold to Ratek Machine in Wisconsin. I = don't know if they are still producing anything or not.=20 Steve has come to me to work to save some of the ideas and update them = so there won't be any intention of using the designs exactly as done = before. Our intention is to produce parts to pay for the cost of making = them for ourselves with the potential of it becoming a full business = much later. There is the possibility of making a complete engine, but = for now only the parts. One item of interest is a steel side plate for = the converted standard engine that weighs only 1 pound more than the = aluminum side plates, but can still be nitrided just like the standard = sideplate. These will be for p-ported engines only as there won't be any = side ports built in. We also want to make a similar lightweight 20B = intermediate housing for 3 rotors using a standard e-shaft. The standard = one weighs 45 pounds and even those have become unobtainium lately. It = must be the rolex 24 hour racers using them up. I have a local shop = quoting the parts as we produce models and drawings as we want them to = be. That is all I can say for now, I'll keep the group posted as we make = progress. Bill Jepson ------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01CAE0BE.D98FABC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
 
You mention "steel side plates that = will weigh 1=20 pound more than the aluminum side plates...." Are you talking about the = 3=20 intermediate iron housings? If not, what are you talking = about?
 
What is it that makes replicating the = iron=20 housings in aluminum so difficult? I realize there is a = potential wear=20 issue, but is there no relatively inexpensive means to produce these = housings=20 with a hardened or treated wear surface that will survive while = otherwise=20 replicating the stock configuration?
 
Seems to me that the hot ticket would = be a PP=20 configured engine with all aluminum housings, but otherwise = standard=20 Mazda configuration so that it would be plug and play compatible with = the stock=20 engine and would use standard available parts (like Tracy's PSRU). That = is an=20 engine I'd pay good money for and would seem to hit the sweet spot in = providing=20 potentially more power with less weight than the typical 4 = cylinder Lyc,=20 without all of the budget busting unobtanium of the original Superlight = engine.=20 And I think that is what Brian is getting at. No coincidence that both = of us=20 have overweight RV-4s and would like to take some weight off. What = am I=20 missing?
 
Mike Wills

Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:58 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: cooling for ground = runs

In a message dated 4/18/2010 7:50:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Bktrub@aol.com writes:
What were the original powersport superlight engines? = 13B p-port,=20 with the oil pan mounting flanges cut off, aluminum side = housings,=20 mounted with the exhaust side down? I'm sure there's more to them than = that,=20 but I think that's what they were, basically.
 
II would have liked to see Powersport make just the engines- = forget the=20 whole package- if the engine is light, powerful, and reliable, then=20 homebuilders will do the rest.
 
 
Just my two cents.
 
Brian Trubee
Brian,
 So you can get the straight scoop I'll talk about this. The=20 "Superlite" engine used HIGHLY modified standard Mazda rotor housings. = Almost=20 every other part was custom. Water inlet location was changed. ALL = center and=20 end plates were aluminum with coatings. The engine used p-ports done the = way=20 they have always done, using o-ring seals. Once done this way they never = had=20 leak problems because the o-rings are designed to handle the heat cycle. = The=20 PSRU was a custom built planetary with a pendrolus damper to move = harmonics=20 outside the operating range. The previously mentioned Mazda housings = were=20 reversed and the engine ran backward so the prop would turn the "right" = way. The=20 engine was plugs up and dry sump from the begining. An absolutely = astounding=20 piece of work. That said they would be too expensive to sell today. = Please=20 remember that this was before Powersport was sold to Ratek Machine in = Wisconsin.=20 I don't know if they are still producing anything or not.
 Steve has come to me to work to save some of the ideas and = update=20 them so there won't be any intention of using the designs exactly as = done=20 before. Our intention is to produce parts to pay for the cost of making = them for=20 ourselves with the potential of it becoming a full business much later. = There is=20 the possibility of making a complete engine, but for now only the parts. = One=20 item of interest is a steel side plate for the converted standard = engine=20 that weighs only 1 pound more than the aluminum side plates, but can = still be=20 nitrided just like the standard sideplate. These will be for p-ported = engines=20 only as there won't be any side ports built in. We also want to make a = similar=20 lightweight 20B intermediate housing for 3 rotors using a standard = e-shaft. The=20 standard one weighs 45 pounds and even those have become unobtainium = lately. It=20 must be the rolex 24 hour racers using them up. I have a local shop = quoting the=20 parts as we produce models and drawings as we want them to be. That is = all I can=20 say for now, I'll keep the group posted as we make progress.
Bill Jepson
------=_NextPart_000_00B9_01CAE0BE.D98FABC0--