X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.100.31] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4181267 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 00:15:45 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.100.31; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-ma05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o2S4F581006790 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 00:15:05 -0400 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.d9e.2112adb (37565) for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 00:15:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-dd02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-dd02.mx.aol.com [205.188.84.130]) by cia-mb04.mx.aol.com (v127_r1.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB042-d3f14baed7c31ee; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 00:15:02 -0400 Received: from webmail-m087 (webmail-m087.sim.aol.com [64.12.224.201]) by smtprly-dd02.mx.aol.com (v127_r1.2) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDD025-d3f14baed7c31ee; Sun, 28 Mar 2010 00:14:59 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Planning and p-port planning (Long) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 00:14:59 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 208.46.237.130 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CC9C445DC49F87_1AC0_3526C_webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 31226-STANDARD Received: from 208.46.237.130 by webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com (64.12.224.201) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 28 Mar 2010 00:14:59 -0400 Message-Id: <8CC9C445DBB1A03-1AC0-1D33C@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CC9C445DC49F87_1AC0_3526C_webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Right now, I've got to get my plane it's airworthiness inspection. But, If= I were in need of a rotary engine and had a reasonable wish list, $7000-$= 9000 for an all aluminum short block P-port engine sounds like a reasonabl= e price, especially if it had mounting provisions built in. =20 Add in Tracy's EM3, EC3, and RD1-C, for about $5500. Then figure for anoth= er $2000-3000 to build an engine mount, exhaust, and intake manifold, inje= ctors, alternator, etc.=20 If you were to go with the high end of all those figures, you'd have aroun= d $17500 on the high end, or $14,500 for the low end. That's do-able. Comp= are that with the price for a rebuilt Lycoming. My 93 13BREW installation easily came in under $8,000. That's bacause I= bought the J-spec engine for $850 with most of the accessories on it, inc= luding the turbo, power steering pump and alternator. I sold all the stuff= I wasn't going to use on e-bay,including the turbo, the manifolds, for ab= out $800. $500 went back into rebuilding the engine, which really didn't= need it, but I had to be sure, and also because I wanted to disable the= thermal pellet and add in the oil jets. Everything else I fabricated myse= lf, which accounts for the excessive weight.=20 But back to the point. Trying to build a plug-in firewall forward package= is a pretty daunting task. Tracy's approach was to make products to help= builders do an engine conversion.=20 I think that powersport spent a lot of time and effort trying to build fir= ewall forward packages in order to make a rotory solution as easy and attr= active as purchasing a Lycoming, since a stumbling point for many builders= is the task of fabricating everything firewall forward for a rotary. Inst= ead of doing all that, I think a more successfull approach would have been= to put the solely into producing a lightweight rotary engine with a much= superior power to weight ratio than a stock 13B, and certainly the Lycomi= ng. I think that that could have been done with an all-aluminum p-port wit= h cast-in pick points for the dynofocal or straight engine mounts, a unive= rsal wrap-over intake with the option of forward or backward facing thrott= le plate, and a 2.85/1 redrive. And they wouldn't have necessarily have ne= eded to offer a complete short block. The could have offered engine parts= -aluminum housings, intake manifolds and redrives. The existance of such= an engine would have been attractive enough to make builders adapt it to= their airplanes. I certainly would have looked at using it.=20 If I weren't trying to get my plane flying this summer, I'd probably be wo= rking on such an engine now. After the plane is flying and I've done the= Jenny Craig program on it, I'll be looking to build such an engine. I jus= t might have to wait until my oil well comes in, but you gotta have your= goals.=20 =20 I'm not knocking Powersport, I'd really like to have seen them be more suc= essful. The earlier Powersport efforts were truly awesome. I'd love to see= a lot more of their engines flying. I'd like to be able to take advantage= of their advances.=20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: wrjjrs@aol.com To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, Mar 27, 2010 8:10 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Planning and p-port planning (Long) Brian, how much would you pay for it? ill Jepson ent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- rom: bktrub@aol.com ate: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 16:54:40=20 o: Rotary motors in aircraft ubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Planning and p-port planning (Long) 'd be happy with an N/A all aluminum 2 rotor p-port. Forget the turbo com= pound=20 or now.=20 Brian Trubee ----Original Message----- rom: Al Gietzen o: Rotary motors in aircraft ent: Sat, Mar 27, 2010 12:52 pm ubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Planning and p-port planning (Long) =20 To start with, I would like to place an order for the 164 pound, over 200H= P=20 ngine please.=20 Mike =20 =20 o problem =E2=80=93 all aluminum, 2-rotor, P-port, turbo-compound. 250HP= at 7000 rpm. =20 ow much would you like to pay? l =20 - omepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ rchive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html ----------MB_8CC9C445DC49F87_1AC0_3526C_webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Right now, I've got to get my plane it's airworthiness inspection. Bu= t, If I were in need of a rotary engine and had a reasonable wish list, $7= 000-$9000 for an all aluminum short block P-port engine sounds like a reas= onable price, especially if it had mounting provisions built in. &nbs= p; 
Add in Tracy's EM3, EC3, and RD1-C, for about $5500. Then figure for= another $2000-3000 to build an engine mount, exhaust, and intake manifold= , injectors, alternator, etc.
 
If you were to go with the high end of all those figures, you'd have= around $17500 on the high end, or $14,500 for the low end. That's do-able= . Compare that with  the price for a rebuilt Lycoming.
 
My 93 13BREW installation  easily came in under $8,000. That's= bacause I bought the J-spec engine for $850 with most of the accessories= on it, including the turbo, power steering pump and alternator. I sold al= l the stuff I wasn't going to use on e-bay,including the turbo, the manifo= lds, for about $800. $500 went back into rebuilding the engine, which= really didn't need it, but I had to be sure, and also because I wanted to= disable the thermal pellet and add in the oil jets. Everything else I fab= ricated myself, which accounts for the excessive weight.
 
But back to the point. Trying to build a plug-in firewall forward pac= kage is a pretty daunting task. Tracy's approach was to make products to= help builders do an engine conversion.
 
I think that powersport spent a lot of time and effort trying to buil= d firewall forward packages in order to make a rotory solution as easy and= attractive as purchasing a Lycoming, since a stumbling point for many bui= lders is the task of fabricating everything firewall forward for a rotary.= Instead of doing all that, I think a more successfull approach would have= been to put the solely into producing a lightweight rotary engine with a= much superior power to weight ratio than a stock 13B, and certainly the= Lycoming. I think that that could have been done with an all-aluminum p-p= ort with cast-in pick points for the dynofocal or straight engine mounts,= a universal wrap-over intake with the option of forward or backward facin= g throttle plate, and a 2.85/1 redrive. And they wouldn't have necessarily= have needed to offer a complete short block. The could hav= e offered engine parts -aluminum housings, intake manifolds and redri= ves.  The existance of such an engine would have been attractive enou= gh to make builders adapt it to their airplanes. I certainly would have lo= oked at using it.
 
If I weren't trying to get my plane flying this summer, I'd probably= be working on such an engine now. After the plane is flying and I've done= the Jenny Craig program on it, I'll be looking to build such an engine.= I just might have to wait until my oil well comes in, but you gotta have= your goals.
 
 
I'm not knocking Powersport, I'd really like to have seen them be mor= e sucessful. The earlier Powersport efforts were truly awesome. I'd love= to see a lot more of their engines flying. I'd like to be able to take ad= vantage of their advances.
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: wrjjrs@aol.com
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, Mar 27, 2010 8:10 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Planning and p-port planning (Long)

Bri=
an, how much would you pay for it?
Bill Jepson
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: bktrub@aol.com
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 16:54:40=20
To: Rotary motors in aircraft<flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Planning and p-port planning (Long)


I'd be happy with an N/A  all aluminum 2 rotor p-port. Forget the turbo co=
mpound=20
for now.=20

Brian Trubee






-----Original Message-----
From: Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.=
net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, Mar 27, 2010 12:52 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Planning and p-port planning (Long)



=20

To start with, I would like to place an order for the 164 pound, over 200H=
P=20
engine please.=20

 Mike =20

=20
No problem =E2=80=93 all aluminum, 2-rotor, P-port, turbo-compound.  250HP=
 at 7000 rpm. =20
How much would you like to pay?
=20
Al


=3D

=20
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