X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost04.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.104] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4173574 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:59:03 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.104; envelope-from=keltro@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; q=dns/txt; d=att.net; s=dkim01; i=keltro@att.net; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1269179942; h=Content-Type: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=rrd7/U ff7RKCeWo6HpkiRey/cYRi+tDl0u2/1Obm4sI=; b=McAi/J4bHjJg8Euoav84fAG+r cyjf40YZqIMPqK9/seQ6IADL1dXtvEjPlDafSmO/lg506Rv1ZVrMrqgoKPqqg== Received: from fwebmail11.isp.att.net ([207.115.9.151]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc04) with SMTP id <20100321135826H0400af822e>; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 13:58:26 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [207.115.9.151] Received: from [208.114.33.249] by fwebmail11.isp.att.net; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 13:58:25 +0000 From: "Kelly Troyer" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Question on RD2-C Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 13:58:25 +0000 Message-Id: <032120101358.23472.4BA62601000ABFC400005BB022230650029B0A02D29B9B0EBF019D9B040A05@att.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Mar 2 2009) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23472_1269179905_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23472_1269179905_0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark or Tracy, Question comes to my mind............Are the original damper rivets al= uminum or steel ?.............I am 60 miles away from the hangar and my damper or = I would check for myself (Not Just Lazy)................ Thanks, -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from Mark Steitle : ---= -----------=20 Update...=20=20 I checked the rivets on my RD2-C damper assembly and was able to confirm th= at they were in fact beginning to loosen as evidenced by the radial streaks= on the damper plate. I picked four rivets at random, approx. 90 degrees a= part, and grabbed the shop heads with vice grips and tried to spin them. A= ll four would spin with little effort, thus confirming that they were begin= ning to loosen. After a phone call to Tracy, we decided to replace the rin= g of rivets with AN3 bolts, which I've now done. I'll be watching to see i= f these show any sign of loosening over time. I would suggest that checkin= g for smoking rivets on the damper be a regular inspection item during oil = changes.=20=20 Mark S. On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: Tracy,=20 I didn't see any cracks, just streaks radiating out from each rivet. Unfor= tunately, I didn't take a picture, and I cleaned the streaks off and reasse= mbled everything. I'll keep a close eye on it and if/when they reappear, I= 'll take a picture and send it to you for evaluation.=20=20 I will also check to see how tight the bolts are in the bushings. My conce= rn was that there was evidence of deterioration around the outer perimeter = of the bushings. I think I would feel better if I went ahead and replaced = them. I'll call you and place an order this week for those. This may be c= aused by the lower rpm (5100-5200) that I typically run in "economy cruise"= mode. It isn't quite as smooth as running the engine at higher rpms, but = the fuel burn is much less. Everything is a tradeoff.=20=20 Thanks, Mark=20=20 On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 10:35 PM, Tracy Crook wr= ote: Hi Mark, I'd need to know more about the 'streaks' to make a guess. If they are j= ust oil streaks, that's no big deal. But if you are talking about cracks, = that's a different matter. I do have the damper rubber parts available. = I have noticed a little 'creap' in the rubber dampers after several hundred= hours on my -4 but as long as the hole is not enlarged (still a snug fit o= n the drive lugs) they will work fine.=20=20 I only have about 24 hours on my RV-8 so far but everything looks good. Tracy=20 =20 On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: Hi Tracy,=20 I had my RD2-C gearbox off the a/c over the holidays and noticed some thing= s that I would like your feedback on. FYI - This gearbox is mounted to a n= /a 20B. It has a total of 153 hours on the gearbox. First, on the flywheel adapter assembly, there is a pattern of streaks lead= ing out radially (like spokes on a wagon wheel) from the circle of rivets. = These are the ones arranged in a large circle holding the center hub to th= e square aluminum plate (the one with the four rubber snubbers). Is this n= ormal? Should I replace the rivets or the adapter? If I need to replace t= he rivets, which type/size do you recommend. Have you seen any of these sy= mptoms on your RV-8?=20=20 Also, I noticed some deterioration of the rubber snubbers. I feel these sh= ould be replaced. Do you sell replacement parts, or can you provide a sour= ce for these.=20=20 I have not disassembled and inspected the actual gearbox (yet). However, I= do have a chip detector on the drain line and have only noticed very fine = metal on the magnet (no large chips). I check this regularly. I run Castr= ol 100% Synthetic oil in the engine/gearbox & premix 2-stroke oil in the ga= s. Hope you are doing well and the RV-8 is trouble-free (if that is possible). Thanks, Mark Steitle 512/497-3046 =20 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23472_1269179905_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23472_1269179905_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_23472_1269179905_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark or Tracy,
     Question comes to my mind............Are the = original damper rivets aluminum
or steel ?.............I am 60 miles away from the hangar and my dampe= r or I would
check for myself (Not Just Lazy)................
 
Thanks,
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_1= 3B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d



 
-------------- Original message from Mark Steitle <msteit= le@gmail.com>: --------------




Update...  

I checked the rivets on my RD2-C damper assembly and was able to confi= rm that they were in fact beginning to loosen as evidenced by the radial st= reaks on the damper plate.  I picked four rivets at random, approx. 90= degrees apart, and grabbed the shop heads with vice grips and tried to spi= n them.  All four would spin with little effort, thus confirming that = they were beginning to loosen.  After a phone call to Tracy, we decide= d to replace the ring of rivets with AN3 bolts, which I've now done.  = I'll be watching to see if these show any sign of loosening over time. &nbs= p;I would suggest that checking for smoking rivets on the damper be a regul= ar inspection item during oil changes.  

Mark S.


On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Mark Steitle <mstei= tle@gmail.com> wrote:
Tracy,
 
I didn't see any cracks, just streaks radiating out from each rivet.&n= bsp; Unfortunately, I didn't take a picture, and I cleaned the streaks off = and reassembled everything.  I'll keep a close eye on it and if/when t= hey reappear, I'll take a picture and send it to you for evaluation.  =
 
I will also check to see how tight the bolts are in the bushings. = ; My concern was that there was evidence of deterioration around the outer = perimeter of the bushings.  I think I would feel better if I went ahea= d and replaced them.  I'll call you and place an order this = week for those.  This may be caused by the lower rpm (5100-5200) that = I typically run in "economy cruise" mode.  It isn't quite as smooth as= running the engine at higher rpms, but the fuel burn is much less.  E= verything is a tradeoff. 
 
Thanks,
Mark 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 10:35 PM, Tracy Crook <tracy@rotaryaviation.com> wrote:
Hi Mark,
  I'd need to kno= w more about the 'streaks' to make a guess.  If they are just oil stre= aks, that's no big deal.  But if you are talking about cracks, that's = a different matter.   I do have the damper rubber parts available= .  I have noticed a little 'creap' in the rubber dampers after several= hundred hours on my -4 but as long as the hole is not enlarged (still a sn= ug fit on the drive lugs)  they will work fine. 

I only h= ave about 24 hours on my RV-8 so far but everything looks good.

Tracy=20

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Mark Steitle <mstei= tle@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tracy,
 
I had my RD2-C gearbox off the a/c over the holidays and noticed some = things that I would like your feedback on.  FYI - This gearbox is moun= ted to a n/a 20B.  It has a total of 153 hours on the gearbox.
 
First, on the flywheel adapter assembly, there is a pattern = of streaks leading out radially (like spokes on a wagon wheel) from th= e circle of rivets.  These are the ones arranged in a large circle hol= ding the center hub to the square aluminum plate (the one with the four rub= ber snubbers).  Is this normal?  Should I replace the rivets or t= he adapter?  If I need to replace the rivets, which type/size do you r= ecommend.  Have you seen any of these symptoms on your RV-8? 
 
Also, I noticed some deterioration of the rubber snubbers.  I fee= l these should be replaced.  Do you sell replacement parts, or can you= provide a source for these.  
 
I have not disassembled and inspected the actual gearbox (yet).  = However, I do have a chip detector on the drain line and have only not= iced very fine metal on the magnet (no large chips).  I check this reg= ularly.  I run Castrol 100% Synthetic oil in the engine/gearbox & = premix 2-stroke oil in the gas.
 
Hope you are doing well and the RV-8 is trouble-free (if that is possi= ble).
 
Thanks,
Mark Steitle
512/497-3046



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