X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao105.cox.net ([68.230.241.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4169727 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:17:20 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.41; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao105.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100318021645.HFKK12229.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:16:45 -0400 Received: from willsPC ([68.105.86.80]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id uSGl1d0091k005Q04SGlLo; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:16:45 -0400 X-VR-Score: -150.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=KqzZVGv1/pIBe+XbL3gCBfL8vaFXECOST7Bs1vfp5Gs= c=1 sm=1 a=gHSMhjeKyj8A:10 a=XruvlouZCDbGUgEaRUiNZQ==:17 a=N8B9JuSIAAAA:8 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=ekHE3smAAAAA:20 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=nUuTZ29dAAAA:8 a=AOLxns7X65Mrh3a7trMA:9 a=yDn24RuTmRJW1wm9P70A:7 a=mA8GBr2eHGU_DWFXERqlAEVMtdsA:4 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=1vhyWl4Y8LcA:10 a=4vB-4DCPJfMA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=uLhuXRL0Z2Ifjljw:21 a=OEZbk72cVVoIcz40:21 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=OQokTg62rOFXpEaV9oMA:9 a=ph4L9cBMIGgjFhNdmLkA:7 a=ges-tJEjSDdv96nGbKd8Kti5g2MA:4 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=XruvlouZCDbGUgEaRUiNZQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <0ED2F8069B0B4705808FDF47EE154FF1@willsPC> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Injector Select Switch [FlyRotary] Re: Civil Discourse was : [FlyRotary] Re: Ut-Oh... Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:16:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0099_01CAC606.61676570" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0099_01CAC606.61676570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave, I don=92t have any problems with the extra work involved in installing = the switches. If I had an issue with extra work I would have installed a = Lyc and been flying 6 years ago. My reasons for not installing them = were: 1) Added complexity - if it isnt there it cant fail and wont be a source = of operator error. 2) My personal approach is to not mess with distractions in flight when = dealing with a problem. I want to be focused on flying the airplane. I figured that there were other ways of dealing with the = troubleshooting/testing issues in initial setup on the ground. In my = installation is very easy to disable one set or the other on the ground = for troubleshooting. Ed's comment notwithstanding, I believe injector = failure to be a very rare event (hope I didn=92t just jinx myself). So I = am still of the opinion that I'm better off without them. But that=92s = just my opinion. Mike From: David Leonard=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 1:34 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Injector Select Switch [FlyRotary] Re: Civil = Discourse was : [FlyRotary] Re: Ut-Oh... Mike, Having flown about half my hours without those switches, and the other = half with them, I can tell you that I am glad I went to the extra = trouble installing them. Not because I have experienced an injector = failure, but because they have helped me trouble shoot a number of other = problems (including the problem caused by installing the switches in the = first place - an loose connection in one of the switches. =20 Beside just failure of the injector itself, there are a number of other = issues were having the switches available in flight could save you, for = example, from having to land on a road. One injector could become = clogged (open or closed) by a single piece of debris, or one of the = crimps or fuses or wires leading to one of them could become = compromised. Just don't shut them both off while at low altitude.... --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Mike Wills wrote: Ed, 1) Have you ever had an injector failure that required this? 2) There were a number of occasions during initial debug when it was = helpful to disable injector pairs. It was easy enough to do this by = pulling power where they were plugged into the essential bus. Not as = convenient as flipping a switch, but I don=92t anticipate having to mess = with it ever again. 3) Are your supply lines to your injectors fused? If not, why not? If = they do short in flight how do you know to turn off the switches? 4) I turn off the fuel pump to kill the engine. I suppose this does = leave a possibility of a little fuel in the chamber? Not sure there is = any reason for concern? Mike Wills=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:30 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Injector Select Switch [FlyRotary] Re: Civil = Discourse was : [FlyRotary] Re: Ut-Oh... I also find the =93Injector Select=94 switches useful for several = purposes, Rino.=20 1. If a problem with one injector of a pair occurs, I can turn that = pair off and fly home on the remaining pair. 2. They are great for trouble shooting injector problems by = permitting you to choose which pair will be on without question.=20 3. In the highly unlikely (but possible) event that a power wire to a = pair should short to ground, you can turn the power off to that pair. =20 4. I also use them to turn off the engine =96 that ensures no residue = fuel in the housings. But, if not wired correctly they can cause a new installation some = puzzling problems {:>) and they do add another component and we know = components can fail =96 although if sized properly for the correct = current and installing quality switches and wire correct the failure in = one will not take you down and the likelihood of both failing at the = same time is rather remote. But, once again, you can certainly fly without them =96 I just find = them very useful. My 0.02 Ed=20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Rino Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:05 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Civil Discourse was : [FlyRotary] Re: = Ut-Oh... I find the "injector failure Switches" convenient during the warmup to = test the operation of the injectors just like the primary and seconday = plugs test. Rino Lacombe ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mike Wills=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:23 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Civil Discourse was : [FlyRotary] Re: = Ut-Oh... I chose not to implement the "injector failure switches". I don=92t = know if there are any statistics on it, but I suspect injector failure = is an extremely rare occurrence. On the other hand if one did fail I'd = rather fly the plane and troubleshoot the problem after I'm on the = ground. But that=92s part of the advantage in going the Experimental = route - build it the way you want it. Mike Wills=20 From: Bktrub@aol.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:47 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Civil Discourse was : [FlyRotary] Re: = Ut-Oh... In the event of a primary or secondary injector failure, the = affected injector set can be switched off and the cold start switch used = to richen up the remaining injectors. This as per Tracy's instructions. = I haven't tried this, and hope I never have to in the heat of battle, = but there it is.=20 Brian Trubee __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_0099_01CAC606.61676570 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dave,
 
I don=92t have any problems with the extra = work involved=20 in installing the switches. If I had an issue with extra work I would = have=20 installed a Lyc and been flying 6 years ago. My reasons for not = installing them=20 were:
 
1) Added complexity - if it isnt there it cant = fail and=20 wont be a source of operator error.
2) My personal approach is to not mess with = distractions=20 in flight when dealing with a problem. I want to be focused on flying = the=20 airplane.
 
I figured that there were other ways of = dealing with the=20 troubleshooting/testing issues in initial setup on the ground. In my=20 installation is very easy to disable one set or the other on the ground = for=20 troubleshooting. Ed's comment notwithstanding, I believe injector = failure to be=20 a very rare event (hope I didn=92t just jinx myself). So I am still of = the opinion=20 that I'm better off without them. But that=92s just my = opinion.
 
Mike

Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 1:34 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Injector Select Switch [FlyRotary] = Re:=20 Civil Discourse was : [FlyRotary] Re: Ut-Oh...

Mike,
 
Having flown about half my hours without those switches, and the = other half=20 with them, I can tell you that I am glad I went to the extra trouble = installing=20 them.  Not because I have experienced an injector failure, but = because they=20 have helped me trouble shoot a number of other problems (including the = problem=20 caused by installing the switches in the first place - an loose = connection in=20 one of the switches. 
 
Beside just failure of the injector itself, there are a number of = other=20 issues were having the switches available in flight could  save = you, for=20 example, from having to land on a road.  One injector could become = clogged=20 (open or closed) by a single piece of debris, or one of the crimps or = fuses or=20 wires leading to one of them could become compromised.
 
Just don't shut them both off while at low altitude....
 
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.nethttp://RotaryRoster.net


On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Mike Wills = <rv-4mike@cox.net>=20 wrote:
Ed,
 
1) Have you ever had an injector failure = that required=20 this?
2) There were a number of occasions during = initial=20 debug when it was helpful to disable injector pairs. It was easy = enough to do=20 this by pulling power where they were plugged into the essential bus. = Not as=20 convenient as flipping a switch, but I don=92t anticipate having to = mess with it=20 ever again.
3) Are your supply lines to your injectors=20 fused? If not, why not? If they do short in flight how do you = know to=20 turn off the switches?
4) I turn off the fuel pump to kill the = engine. I=20 suppose this does leave a possibility of a little fuel in the chamber? = Not=20 sure there is any reason for concern?
 
Mike Wills 

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:30 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Injector Select Switch [FlyRotary] = Re: Civil=20 Discourse was : [FlyRotary] Re: Ut-Oh...

I also =  find the=20 =93Injector Select=94 switches useful for several purposes, Rino.=20

 

1.  If = a problem=20 with one injector of a pair occurs, I can turn that pair off and fly = home on=20 the remaining pair.

2.  = They are=20 great for trouble shooting injector problems by permitting you to = choose which=20 pair will be on without question.

3. In the = highly=20 unlikely (but possible) event that a power wire to a pair should short = to=20 ground, you can turn the power off to that pair.  =

4. I also = use them to=20 turn off the engine =96 that ensures no residue fuel in the=20 housings.

 

 But, = if not=20 wired correctly they can cause a new installation some puzzling = problems=20 {:>) and they do add another component and we know components can = fail =96=20 although if sized properly for the correct current and installing = quality=20 switches and wire correct the failure in one will not take you down = and the=20 likelihood of both failing at the same time is rather=20 remote.

 

But, once = again, you=20 can certainly fly without them =96 I just find them very=20 useful.

 

My=20 0.02

 

Ed =

 

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW=20 Rotary Powered

Matthews,=20 NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html<= /P>

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Rino
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 = 8:05=20 AM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Civil Discourse was : [FlyRotary] Re: = Ut-Oh...

 

I find the = "injector=20 failure Switches" convenient during the warmup to test the operation = of the=20 injectors just like the primary and seconday plugs=20 test.

 

Rino=20 Lacombe

 

----- = Original=20 Message -----

From: Mike=20 Wills

To: Rotary motors in aircraft =

Sent: = Tuesday, March=20 16, 2010 1:23 AM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Civil Discourse was : [FlyRotary] Re: = Ut-Oh...

 

I = chose not to=20 implement the "injector failure switches". I don=92t know if there = are any=20 statistics on it, but I suspect injector failure is an extremely=20 rare occurrence. On the other hand if one did fail I'd rather = fly the=20 plane and troubleshoot the problem after I'm on the ground. But = that=92s=20 part of the advantage in going the Experimental route - build it the = way you=20 want it.

 

Mike=20 Wills 

 

From: Bktrub@aol.com

Sent: = Monday, March=20 15, 2010 8:47 AM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft =

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Civil Discourse was : [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Ut-Oh...

 

In the = event of a=20 primary or secondary injector failure, the affected injector set can = be=20 switched off and the cold start switch used to richen up the = remaining=20 injectors. This as per Tracy's instructions. I haven't tried this, = and hope=20 I never have to in the heat of battle, but there it is.=20

 

Brian=20 Trubee



__________=20 Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature = database=20 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET = NOD32=20 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



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