X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-pv0-f180.google.com ([74.125.83.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4169388 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:19:56 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.83.180; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by pvc22 with SMTP id 22so769665pvc.25 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 13:19:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=W38ZTlrTeBK2x6g+5L+qM18D7NZcmNeRkNFeM6G+kGM=; b=krKNIywoHluNN8Zl8VgDUxvj65sr1g8ScfDunZNuPmswj8Dl21K17CqTHNq17nWLr+ Ihm1vbQQKYfddxyzy0FWmtkuissOpk3vwDLe01uWeK24FdGfrfWRg35jK40Fu2h31Lir b5tjTkDSFNBf4nByfmBXBWiuhWCUN6lxUArTg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=GcP9YbszT2QO9K9JPbKP8eB6J13T4H4ibZMv5SA8D9esFJI09h3+gMsymbp/nSSgwa lhJhqn1XIiBxM/joPPIlv0jJlvbuFrNBYq5Y8hCg+toUMT2WyZtokigfS3t1yWMm0CiU vlp2FK9tZ5MTy88kx2eAh1jSxy5XcQxRRCep0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.188.4 with SMTP id q4mr1052098rvp.147.1268857158107; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 13:19:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 13:19:18 -0700 Message-ID: <1c23473f1003171319s61979518q382cbd99c39fcf30@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Considerations From: David Leonard To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1aa3e2e07cf048204d41e --000e0cd1aa3e2e07cf048204d41e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris, I also agree with everything Mark and Al. said. For me, I chose the turbo because it fit better in an RV-6 and was simple to do (I had a turbo just sitting there... had it at least put it on and try it. It can potentially provide much better power/weight at high altitude. But in general, Al's 20B makes more power than I want to risk with my turbo 13B, and the 20B will stll make more power than a n/a 13B at altitude. --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: > Chris, > > I'm with Al on this one. I chose the 20B for the extra reliability of a > third rotor rationalizing that if I lost a rotor, there would be two more= to > get me home. Also, the 3-rotor is a little smoother as it fires every 12= 0* > vs. 180* for the 2-rotor. What we need is an all aluminum 3-rotor! > > Mark S. > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Al Gietzen wrote= : > >> Chris; >> >> I know little about turbocharging; so I can=92t help you on that score. = But >> I did spend some time way back about the decision of 20B vs turbo 13B. = That >> is a fairly even tradeoff, so when you say =93that ship has sailed for m= e=94 I=92d >> agree. >> >> >> >> My reasons for finally choosing the 20B: I think comparing the total >> weight of the installation there isn=92t a big difference =96 adding the= turbo, >> the intercooler and the extra plumbing is close to adding another rotor = and >> the big intermediate housing. I also felt that adding a rotor added some >> redundancy, whereas the turbo added more complexity and potential failur= e >> modes. It seemed to me that pushing 2 rotors harder to get the power of= 3 >> added stress to the engine; but I think the the rotary can handle it, so >> that=92s not much of an issue. And the 20B fits pretty well on the >> Velocity. >> >> >> >> Given where you are with the 13B; and the collective experience and >> knowledge now available with turbos in this application; I=92d say =93go= for >> it=94. >> >> >> >> Al >> >> >> >> >> >> Al G did it with a 20b in the same kit airframe. However, that ship has >> sailed for me. >> >> Actually, that brings up another issue I have been curious about. Why so >> much preference to a relatively hard to find and expensive 20b over a >> turbo??????? I noticed it routinely in the achieves. I understand the 20= b is >> more powerful out of the box and the conventional wisdom seems to say >> the 20b is simpler...tubo's add complexity. Well, the 20b does have an e= xtra >> moving part ....but, unlike the turbo option the 20b does not do much= for >> you in thin air, the turbo does. Also, a 13b turbo install would still s= eem >> to be lighter than a 20b N/A install. What am I missing or do we just re= ally >> like the cool factor of the 20b (no disagreement there from me). >> >> I once again throw myself at the mercy of the collective wisdom for >> edification. While y'all pine away on it all, I will be confusing myself >> further doing some more surfing and remind myself of the other questions= I >> meant to ask. >> >> As always, thanks. >> >> All the best, >> >> Chris Barber >> >> Houston, GSOT >> > > --000e0cd1aa3e2e07cf048204d41e Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris,
=A0
I also agree with everything Mark and Al. said.=A0 For me, I chose the= turbo because it fit better in an RV-6 and was simple to do (I had a turbo= just sitting there... had it at least put it on and try it.=A0 It can pote= ntially provide much better power/weight at high altitude. But in=A0general= , Al's=A020B makes more power than I want to risk with my turbo 13B, an= d the 20B=A0will stll make more power than a n/a 13B at altitude.=A0
=A0
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryR= oster.net
=A0

=A0
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.co= m> wrote:
Chris,
=A0
I'm with Al on this one.=A0 I chose the 20B for the extra reliabil= ity of a third rotor rationalizing that if I lost a rotor, there would be t= wo more to get me home.=A0 Also, the 3-rotor is a little smoother as it fir= es every 120* vs. 180* for the 2-rotor.=A0=A0What we need is an all aluminu= m 3-rotor!
=A0
Mark S.=A0

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Al Gietzen <= ALVentures@cox.net> wrote:

Chris;

I know litt= le about turbocharging; so I can=92t help you on that score. =A0But I did s= pend some time way back about the decision of 20B vs turbo 13B.=A0 That is = a fairly even tradeoff, so when you say =93that ship has sailed for me=94 = I=92d agree.

=A0

My reasons for finally choosing the 20B: I think comparing the total weigh= t of the installation there isn=92t a big difference =96 adding the turbo, = the intercooler and the extra plumbing is close to adding another rotor and= the big intermediate housing. I also felt that adding a rotor added some r= edundancy, whereas the turbo added more complexity and potential failure mo= des. =A0It seemed to me that pushing 2 rotors harder to get the power of 3 = added stress to the engine; but I think the the rotary can handle it, so th= at=92s not much of an issue. =A0And the 20B fits pretty well on the = Velocity= .=

=A0

Given where you are with the 13B; and the collective experience and knowle= dge now available with turbos in this application; I=92d say =93go for it= =94.

=A0

Al

=A0

=A0

Al G did it with a=A020b in the same kit airframe. However, that ship has s= ailed for me.

Actually, that brings up another issue I have been curious abou= t. Why so much preference to a relatively hard to find and expensive=A020b = over a turbo??????? I noticed it routinely in the achieves. I understand th= e=A020b is more powerful out of the box and the conventional wisdom seems t= o say the=A020b is simpler...tubo's add complexity. Well, the=A020b doe= s have an extra moving part <g>....but, unlike the turbo option the= =A020b does not do much for you in thin air, the turbo does. Also, a=A013b = turbo install would still seem to be lighter than a=A020b N/A install. What= am I missing or do we just really like the cool factor of the=A020b (no di= sagreement there from me).

I once again throw myself at the mercy of the collective wisdom= for edification. While y'all pine away on it all, I will be confusing = myself further doing some more surfing and remind myself of the other quest= ions I meant to ask.

As always, thanks.

All the best,

Chris Barber

Houston, GSOT





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