X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao106.cox.net ([68.230.241.40] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4168428 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:14:43 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.40; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao106.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100317021407.WSAC18268.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:14:07 -0400 Received: from willsPC ([68.105.86.80]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id u2Dx1d00J1k005Q042E8ju; Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:14:08 -0400 X-VR-Score: -20.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=yjuDh3Ma92GrVaJxYD7gfORM7ilP1Knqouyx6SOEBcg= c=1 sm=1 a=XruvlouZCDbGUgEaRUiNZQ==:17 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=kgCTkPBNZ85gzJ-kFgUA:9 a=RkXzRK2jZvXXsI-TDVYA:7 a=vUSbewWr1fiVJ1l6ym6OSS7b_lwA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=w6op_JTR8hn6E89K:21 a=XVVO52XjccH9Bxae:21 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=dMeY7nPxD-Tj-HpWIIEA:9 a=nK70sqgVjXm0WN6CCGQA:7 a=wAle2thkucp-0fmLxeCSUGM0GowA:4 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=QHtkgAQWe416q3_XZDgA:9 a=2f15HMneWyZRz5h78DsBomLtKZYA:4 a=1Vq_FK4TplAA:10 a=dx5mqB3QTH2C56R_2R0A:9 a=XruvlouZCDbGUgEaRUiNZQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <20AC82ADE4DE4F7C87DB7729AE5DB58D@willsPC> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] weighty subject Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:13:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0093_01CAC53C.D30B6750" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0093_01CAC53C.D30B6750 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0094_01CAC53C.D30B6750" ------=_NextPart_001_0094_01CAC53C.D30B6750 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Brian. I was pissed when my RV-4 weighed 1027 but I feel a little = better now.=20 Are you running 2 batteries? I am - probably an additional 20 pounds = total there. Batteries are in the baggage compartment for CG reasons = which requires extra battery cable length - another few pounds. = Temperfoam seat cushions front and rear, maybe an extra 4 pounds. I went = a little larger on radiator size than some do which means I'm carrying = around extra water. Anyway, amazing how it all adds up. When the Red Bull racers were here I was talking to the crew chief for = pilot Nigel Lamb. He told me they took almost 100 pounds off the = airplane during the off season. You wouldn't believe the extremes they = go to. Making control cables to exact lengths to eliminate turnbuckles, = hollow bolt shanks, lithium batteries in place of RG batteries, etc.... For gross weight I set mine high enough that I could take an "FAA = standard" person and 20 pounds of baggage with full tanks. Mike Wills From: Bktrub@aol.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:20 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] weighty subject Today was the day of judgement, the measure of my building = prowness- no, not the first flight, but the weight and balance. My plane = weighs 1091 lbs, weighed as it should be- no usable fuel, full oil and = coolant. I for one would go with the aluminum housings if they cost me = up to $1500 more than the cast iron ones. If they saved 70 lbs total, = that would be around $21 for each pound saved, to get my plane down to a = more svelte 1021 lbs. I'm sure I could probably get another 15 lbs off = if I did some weight reduction on my Shertz beam front mount, along with = other things. I also went a bit heavy on my engine mount- 1" dia x .049 = thick tubes on some of the mount. I at least have confidence that my = mount should hold up. The CGs all work out OK- design range is between = 68.7 -77.7 inches aft of datum. Here is how it works out: Vans states that most RV-4s come in around 950 lbs. Gross = recommended is 1500 lbs. Mine: Empty 66.2, wt.1021 lbs with 180 lb pilot, but no fuel-68.51, just a bit out of CG by .2 = inches, total wt. 1271 with 180 lb pilot and full fuel 68.8, total wt. 1465- =20 with 35 lbs baggage- cg-70.38 total 1500 If I want to take a passenger with full fuel and baggage, they'd = better not weigh a thing, or I'll be flying over gross recommended = weight.=20 Brian Trubee=20 ------=_NextPart_001_0094_01CAC53C.D30B6750 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Brian. I was pissed when my = RV-4 weighed=20 1027 but I feel a little better now.
 
Are you running 2 batteries? I am - = probably an=20 additional 20 pounds total there. Batteries are in the baggage = compartment for=20 CG reasons which requires extra battery cable length - another few=20 pounds. Temperfoam seat cushions front and rear, maybe an = extra 4=20 pounds. I went a little larger on radiator size than some do which means = I'm=20 carrying around extra water. Anyway, amazing how it all adds = up.
 
When the Red Bull racers were here I = was talking=20 to the crew chief for pilot Nigel Lamb. He told me they took almost 100 = pounds=20 off the airplane during the off season. You wouldn=92t believe the = extremes they=20 go to. Making control cables to exact lengths to eliminate turnbuckles, = hollow=20 bolt shanks, lithium batteries in place of RG batteries, = etc....
 
For gross weight I set mine high = enough that I=20 could take an "FAA standard" person and 20 pounds of baggage with full=20 tanks.
 
Mike Wills

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] weighty subject

Today was the day of judgement, the measure of my building = prowness-=20 no, not the first flight, but = the weight=20 and balance. My plane weighs 1091 lbs, weighed as it should be- no = usable=20 fuel, full oil and coolant. I for one would go with the aluminum = housings=20 if they cost me up to  $1500 more than the cast iron ones. If they saved 70 lbs = total, that=20 would be around $21 for each pound saved, to get my plane down to = a more=20 svelte 1021 lbs. I'm sure I could probably get another 15 lbs off = if I did=20 some weight reduction on = my Shertz=20 beam front mount, along with other things. I also went a bit heavy = on my=20 engine mount- 1" dia x .049 thick tubes on some of the mount. I at = least=20 have confidence that my mount should hold up. The CGs all work out = OK-=20 design range is between 68.7 -77.7 inches aft of datum. Here is = how it=20 works out:
 
 
Vans states that most RV-4s come in around 950 lbs. Gross = recommended=20 is 1500 lbs.
 
Mine:
Empty 66.2, wt.1021 lbs
with 180 lb pilot, but no fuel-68.51, just a bit out of CG by = .2=20 inches, total wt. 1271
with 180 lb pilot and full fuel 68.8, total wt. 1465-  =
with 35 lbs baggage- cg-70.38      = total=20 1500
If I want to take a passenger with full fuel and baggage, = they'd=20 better not weigh a thing, or I'll be flying over gross recommended = weight.=20
 
Brian = Trubee

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