X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omta3.toronto.rmgopenwave.com ([4.59.182.101] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4166298 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:58:39 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=4.59.182.101; envelope-from=lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca Received: from torspm04.toronto.rmgopenwave.com ([142.167.69.192]) by tormtz03.toronto.rmgopenwave.com (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100315145759.MILW15128.tormtz03.toronto.rmgopenwave.com@torspm04.toronto.rmgopenwave.com> for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:57:59 -0400 Received: from PCdeRita ([142.167.69.192]) by torspm04.toronto.rmgopenwave.com with SMTP id <20100315145758.XRII18854.torspm04.toronto.rmgopenwave.com@PCdeRita> for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:57:58 -0400 Message-ID: <3A81D56B3BF645A09845BE284B9C353D@PCdeRita> From: "Rino" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Ut-Oh... Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 11:57:33 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01CAC436.B27D3AB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-Opwv-CommTouchExtSvcRefID: str=0001.0A020209.4B9E4AF7.00BA,ss=1,pt=DBB_66871,fgs=0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01CAC436.B27D3AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please don't knock me down or kick me out, I love this list, I learn a = lot from the people who write it. But I want to add my grain of salt. I know that the following belong in another list, not a list that deal = with rotary engines. And there is the PILOT. I believe there are no accident accident, all are forseable and = avoidable, why is my unconsious setting me up to that accident. All I = can add is that I have looked into my past accidents and I am convinced = my unconsious could have avoided it if it wanted to, why did it = happened? All I can say at this time is that in the process of building and flying = a Glass Goose I have learned more about the PILOT (me) than building = airplanes. sorry for the diversion Rino Lacombe ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Wick=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 11:09 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ut-Oh... Another dead stick landing. Same old causes. Fortunately no = fatalities....this time.=20 Let's pretend you are the copilot. You've been flying along for 10 = minutes. When the pilot says: "Hey Bob, how about giving me 150 times as = much fuel right now." You'd say:"WHAT?!! You are crazy, that will shut = down the engine!" Pilot:" Oops, my bad. O2 and egt's are normal. My mistake" Does that sound far fetched? Nope. It happens a couple times a year. = Often it's a case where the pilot inadvertently drives the ecu to super = lean condition. Engines suddenly quits. Let's use your home pc as an = example. You tell the pc to delete all files on your hard drive. It = recognizes this is most unusual and could be catastrophic. So it = says:"Are you sure you want to wipe out hard drive? This could be fatal" Every failure has more than one cause. Yes, the pilot inadvertently = flipped the "cold start" switch when he was reaching for his gps. Was it = Ed last year who inadvertently rotated the mixture to full lean? Last = year Keith's passenger bumped the ecu mixture knob while getting in the = plane. So, yes, Ed, Keith, and Dave all made the same mistakes. They = placed a switch capable of shutting down the engine in the wrong area of = the instrument panel. End of story? NO! As soon as one of these ECU suppliers adds the "Are you sure?" logic, = then all of these failures disappear. Pretty simple logic statement. = Actually, there are a whole bunch of ways this can be handled. I had to = do this type of programming with industrial plc's because these same = "oops" were so common. Think about this. If engine has been running for = more than 5 minutes, only allow small mixture changes. Never enough to = shut down engine. So let's say that 100 will shut down engine, then we = only allow a change of 20 each minute.=20 I think the ECU providers recognize builder error. "Whew! Not MY = problem." They don't ask: "Is there something I can do to save lives?" = If they make these simple changes, then every single plane is no longer = sensitive to these common "oops" scenarios. So yes, if Dave moves his = switch, HE will be safer. But if the ECU supplier makes this simple = programming change, then every single plane will be safer. Real world = mistakes will no longer shut down the engine.=20 I want these suppliers to be successful. I want fewer plane crashes. = But it's not going to happen unless you guys (privately) encourage these = simple changes.=20 This group is making good progress on failure reduction. There are a = handful of ecu changes that will really make a difference. Please = pursue! Question question question.=20 -al wick ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01CAC436.B27D3AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Please don't knock me down or kick me = out, I love=20 this list, I learn a lot from the people who write it.  But I = want to=20 add my grain of salt.
 
I know that the following belong = in another=20 list, not a list that deal with rotary engines.
 
And there is the PILOT.
I believe there are no accident = accident, all are=20 forseable and avoidable, why is my unconsious setting me up to that=20 accident.  All I can add is that I have looked into my past = accidents and I=20 am convinced my unconsious could have avoided it if it wanted to, why = did it=20 happened?
 
All I can say at this time is that in = the process=20 of building and flying a Glass Goose I have learned more about the = PILOT =20 (me) than building airplanes.
 
sorry for the diversion
Rino Lacombe
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Al Wick =
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 = 11:09=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Ut-Oh...

Another dead stick landing. Same = old causes.=20 Fortunately no fatalities....this time.
 
Let's pretend you are the copilot. = You've been=20 flying along for 10 minutes. When the pilot says: "Hey Bob, how about = giving=20 me 150 times as much fuel right now."   You'd say:"WHAT?!! = You are=20 crazy, that will shut down the engine!"
Pilot:" Oops, my bad. O2 and egt's = are normal. My=20 mistake"
 
Does that sound far fetched? Nope. It = happens a=20 couple times a year. Often it's a case where the pilot inadvertently = drives=20 the ecu to super lean condition. Engines suddenly quits. Let's = use your=20 home pc as an example. You tell the pc to delete all files on your = hard drive.=20 It recognizes this is most unusual and could be catastrophic. So it = says:"Are=20 you sure you want to wipe out hard drive? This could be = fatal"
 
Every failure has more than one = cause. Yes, the=20 pilot inadvertently flipped the "cold start" switch when he was = reaching for=20 his gps. Was it Ed last year who inadvertently rotated the mixture to = full=20 lean?  Last year Keith's passenger bumped the ecu mixture = knob while=20 getting in the plane. So, yes, Ed, Keith, and Dave all made the = same=20 mistakes. They placed a switch capable of shutting down the engine in = the=20 wrong area of the instrument panel. End of story? NO!
 
As soon as one of these ECU suppliers = adds the=20 "Are you sure?" logic, then all of these failures disappear. Pretty = simple=20 logic statement. Actually, there are a whole bunch of ways this can be = handled. I had to do this type of programming with industrial plc's = because=20 these same "oops" were so common. Think about this. If engine has been = running=20 for more than 5 minutes, only allow small mixture changes. Never = enough to=20 shut down engine. So let's say that 100 will shut down engine, then we = only=20 allow a change of 20 each minute.
 
I think the ECU providers recognize = builder=20 error. "Whew! Not MY problem."  They don't ask: "Is there = something I can=20 do to save lives?"   If they make these simple changes, then = every=20 single plane is no longer sensitive to these common "oops" scenarios. = So yes,=20 if Dave moves his switch, HE will be safer. But if the ECU = supplier makes=20 this simple programming change, then every single plane will be safer. = Real=20 world mistakes will no longer shut down the engine.
 
I want these suppliers to be = successful. I want=20 fewer plane crashes. But it's not going to happen unless you guys = (privately)=20 encourage these simple changes.
 
This group is making good progress on = failure=20 reduction. There are a handful of ecu changes that will really make a=20 difference. Please pursue! Question question question.
 
 
-al=20 wick
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