X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao104.cox.net ([68.230.241.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4165750 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:29:53 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.42; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao104.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100315012919.TVKB16123.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:29:19 -0400 Received: from willsPC ([68.105.86.80]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id tDVH1d00A1k005Q04DVHLu; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:29:17 -0400 X-VR-Score: -130.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=TTjbbkynbnR63pKaJxciEMoOA/8Tvb3tS8UBzzTBYmU= c=1 sm=1 a=XruvlouZCDbGUgEaRUiNZQ==:17 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=N8B9JuSIAAAA:8 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=nZ9fZhOhAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=JiWR0X06ryB2J8kep3YA:9 a=mM-f524bsf9hl1Esnr8A:7 a=kctJuWdLhOA3RfWMx52n8VyO5FgA:4 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=5zrLeAV0Z70A:10 a=2dHn3GtT1gEA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=iVkDmfvjeKcA:10 a=Y1L07nie7P2iH87u:21 a=S_q59M4vgEdNCAQz:21 a=7OwTTAg088kpHSRkRjMA:9 a=W_NLs7IAC1nnN3uPDdMA:7 a=9QLIcaDQqZlAYoBgPvc8JPhxP4gA:4 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=V71WyXa0KbcMF9Fo:21 a=-Uwsbqjlajakx6K9:21 a=XruvlouZCDbGUgEaRUiNZQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <905A80C54D874828899CB684413321A9@willsPC> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Ut-Oh... Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:29:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008A_01CAC3A4.404B73E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008A_01CAC3A4.404B73E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I got in a discussion with a guy at the airport yesterday regarding the = Toyota drive by wire throttle problem. He's of the opinion that = technology has gone way too far. He want federal regulations that = prevent manufacturers from placing electronic systems in throttle, = braking, and steering systems. He concedes that cars now are far safer = than they were 30 years ago (where he is apparently stuck), but in his = opinion even one death attributed to "too much technology" is one too = many. How do you have an intelligent conversation with someone like = that? Mike Wills=20 From: Tracy Crook=20 Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:39 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ut-Oh... Thanks David, Both you and Jon are aviators and I knew you guys understood the = score on this stuff. It's mostly the non-flyers that think that every = conceivable failure / error mode can and must be eliminated. Try yes, = but it will never be 100%. I'm too embarassed to say how many times = I've inadvertantly turned off my fuel pump switch. Must move it soon. BTW, I think it is a tribute to the community of experimental builders = and pilots that so many power out landings end as gracefully as the ones = that have been discussed on this list. Don't know the official stats = but my impression is that only a small fraction of typical GA power out = incidents end this well. Tracy Crook On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 11:04 AM, David Leonard = wrote: Tracy, I definately do not consider this a short coming of the EC2. Though, = I do think that I will cut down the switch to help prevent a recurrence. = Though I don't think I will ever neglect to check that if something = should happen in the future... I wonder what else is lurking out there. --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:10 AM, Tracy Crook = wrote: I know Dave or Jon wouldn't phrase it this way but I've already = received a number of messages from others about these two recent = in-flight power failures due to EC2 issues.=20 Jon's was due to a loose mounting nut inside the EC2 that shorted = the main power input filter to ground and burned open both foils from = the 2 power input pins. How lucky was that.=20 Anyway, at the risk of sounding defensive, I thought I'd share my = response to one of them that suggested changing the EC2 case to an = external mount of some sort. I'm sure there are scores of messages on = the way urging me to place switch guards on the cold start switch : ) REPLY Hello ---------- I'm aware of the failure and have the unit here for repair. Like a thousand other critical details in building an aircraft, = it is not possible to explicitly spell out all of them. The precise = method and hardware used to accomplish it are not part of the EC2 or the = instructions. The first paragraph of the installation guide does say the = following: "Needless to say, the quality of installation is just as important = as the quality of the hardware itself. It is not practical to include a = course on proper electrical wiring practices in these installation = instructions, but it is imperative that proper wiring techniques be = employed during the installation of the EC2."=20 It was my thought that avoiding the presence of loose metal objects = inside an electrical device that your life depends on fell into the = category of "needless to say". Nevertheless, a cautionary note might well be worth adding. As = also stated in the first paragraph of the instructions,=20 " I want your project to succeed and your life to be a long and = happy one. " All the best, Tracy Crook, RWS =20 On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 2:34 AM, David Leonard = wrote: Boy, word sure gets around these days.. =20 short answer... inadvertently hit cold start switch while messing = with GPS and flying at 1000' AGL.. not enough time to troubleshoot... = had to fly plane and find a place to land. Both happy and appalled when the I realized the problem 2 minutes = after the commotion stopped. The tower must have been plain appalled = when I took off again later this afternoon. --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net=20 On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Dave = wrote: Bill Monroe wrote: Dave=92s going to have an interesting story to tell=85 http://www.cbs8.com/global/story.asp?s=3D12136229 Glad he landed safe.. -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_008A_01CAC3A4.404B73E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I got in a discussion with a guy at the = airport=20 yesterday regarding the Toyota drive by wire throttle problem. He's of = the=20 opinion that technology has gone way too far. He want federal = regulations that=20 prevent manufacturers from placing electronic systems in throttle, = braking, and=20 steering systems. He concedes that cars now are far safer than they were = 30=20 years ago (where he is apparently stuck), but in his opinion even one = death=20 attributed to "too much technology" is one too many. How do you have an=20 intelligent conversation with someone like that?
 
Mike Wills 

Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:39 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ut-Oh...

Thanks David,
   Both you and Jon are = aviators and I=20 knew you guys understood the score on this stuff.  It's mostly the=20 non-flyers that think that every conceivable failure / error mode can = and must=20 be eliminated.  Try yes,  but it will never be 100%.  I'm = too=20 embarassed to say how many times I've inadvertantly turned off my fuel = pump=20 switch.  Must move it soon.

BTW, I think it is a tribute to = the=20 community of experimental builders and pilots that so many power out = landings=20 end as gracefully as the ones that have been discussed on this = list.  Don't=20 know the official stats but my impression is that only a small fraction = of=20 typical GA power out incidents end this well.

Tracy Crook

On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 11:04 AM, David Leonard = <wdleonard@gmail.com> = wrote:
Tracy,
 
I definately do not consider this a short coming of the = EC2. =20 Though, I do think that I will cut down the switch to help prevent a=20 recurrence.  Though I don't think I will ever neglect to check = that if=20 something should happen in the future...  I wonder what else is = lurking=20 out there.
 
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.n= et


On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:10 AM, Tracy Crook = <tracy@rotaryaviation.com> wrote:
I know Dave or Jon wouldn't phrase it this way but = I've=20 already received a number of messages from others about these two = recent=20 in-flight power failures due to EC2 issues.

 Jon's was = due to a=20 loose mounting nut inside the EC2 that shorted the main power input = filter=20 to ground and burned open both foils from the 2 power input = pins.  How=20 lucky was that.

  Anyway, at the risk of sounding = defensive, I=20 thought I'd share my response to one of them that suggested changing = the EC2=20 case to an external mount of some sort.  I'm sure there are = scores of=20 messages on the way urging me to place switch guards on the cold = start=20 switch  : )

REPLY

Hello ----------
  I'm = aware of=20 the failure and have the unit here for repair.

   = Like a=20 thousand other critical details in building an aircraft, it is not = possible=20 to explicitly spell out all of them.  The precise method and = hardware=20 used to accomplish it are not part of the EC2 or the instructions. = The first=20 paragraph of the installation guide does say the following:

"Needless to=20 say, the quality of installation is just as important as the quality = of the=20 hardware itself.  It is not practical to include a = course=20 on proper electrical wiring practices in these installation = instructions,=20 but it is imperative that proper wiring techniques be employed = during the=20 installation of the EC2."

It was my thought that avoiding = the=20 presence of loose metal objects inside an electrical device that = your life=20 depends on fell into the category of  "needless to=20 say".

Nevertheless, a cautionary note might well be worth=20 adding.   As also stated in the first paragraph of the=20 instructions,
" I want = your project=20 to succeed and your life to be a long and happy one. "

All the = best,
Tracy Crook,   =20 RWS
 =20


On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 2:34 AM, David = Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com> wrote:
Boy,  word sure gets around these = days.. =20

short answer... inadvertently hit cold start switch while = messing=20 with GPS and flying at 1000' AGL..  not enough time to=20 troubleshoot...  had to fly plane and find a place to=20 land.

Both happy and appalled when the I realized the = problem 2=20 minutes after the commotion stopped.  The tower must have = been plain=20 appalled when I took off again later this afternoon.

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 = N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.n= et=20


On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Dave = <david.staten@gmail.com> wrote:
Bill Monroe wrote:

Dave=92s going to have an interesting = story to=20 tell=85

http://www.cbs8.com/global/story.asp?s=3D12136229
=
Glad=20 he landed safe..

--
Homepage: =  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and = UnSub:  =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l






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