X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao102.cox.net ([68.230.241.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4165420 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:48:41 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.44; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao102.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100314154806.PDJR8308.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:48:06 -0400 Received: from willsPC ([68.105.86.80]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id t3o51d0041k005Q043o5xP; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:48:05 -0400 X-VR-Score: -130.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=KqzZVGv1/pIBe+XbL3gCBfL8vaFXECOST7Bs1vfp5Gs= c=1 sm=1 a=XruvlouZCDbGUgEaRUiNZQ==:17 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=N8B9JuSIAAAA:8 a=nZ9fZhOhAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=QUhNLiZrErooQksbGxsA:9 a=V68Z-yP_miK-4P58hVwA:7 a=1lOjt7I8Xvx5m2MLYBGZy_fHqEsA:4 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=5zrLeAV0Z70A:10 a=2dHn3GtT1gEA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=d4JmvvCQzxMbwW5O:21 a=yg6jcqhkNwqTL2UK:21 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=grPFRN2xhVMaoJUijQ4A:9 a=shfm87lU44YTYGED5WQA:7 a=x-YuCQxO9AYJNWj8a4C5VNh7qhMA:4 a=iVkDmfvjeKcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=7lupo3Idqn43XkD8:21 a=wyLYTVvzAC4DjxLk:21 a=XruvlouZCDbGUgEaRUiNZQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Ut-Oh... Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 08:48:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01CAC353.0F6C7B30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01CAC353.0F6C7B30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You of course are totally correct Tracy. Anyone who signs up to build = their own airplane, and to power it with an engine that is not what the = designer recommended has to be willing to accept complete responsibility = for all installation and integration issues. Even if they buy hardware = from a third party such as you. Say what you want about standard aircraft engines, but at least the = installation requirements are well known. I doubt there are any two = rotary installations that are identical. We are on the bleeding edge. In my install I remote mounted the switches from the control panel. I = did this for a number of reasons, one of which is I chose to use MS = switches which are larger, much more robust, and have a much stiffer = snap action when toggling. They are harder to accidentally switch but I = have still had a couple of occasions where I've accidentally toggled the = A - B controller selector while climbing in or out of the airplane. Like = I said in my previous, I'm considering removing the cold start switch = since I've never had a need to use it. Personal choice. Can you give a little more detail about where that nut that shorted out = the EC2 came from? Was it one of the nuts that secures the pcb to the = case lid? Mike Wills=20 From: Tracy Crook=20 Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:10 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ut-Oh... I know Dave or Jon wouldn't phrase it this way but I've already received = a number of messages from others about these two recent in-flight power = failures due to EC2 issues.=20 Jon's was due to a loose mounting nut inside the EC2 that shorted the = main power input filter to ground and burned open both foils from the 2 = power input pins. How lucky was that.=20 Anyway, at the risk of sounding defensive, I thought I'd share my = response to one of them that suggested changing the EC2 case to an = external mount of some sort. I'm sure there are scores of messages on = the way urging me to place switch guards on the cold start switch : ) REPLY Hello ---------- I'm aware of the failure and have the unit here for repair. Like a thousand other critical details in building an aircraft, it is = not possible to explicitly spell out all of them. The precise method = and hardware used to accomplish it are not part of the EC2 or the = instructions. The first paragraph of the installation guide does say the = following: "Needless to say, the quality of installation is just as important as = the quality of the hardware itself. It is not practical to include a = course on proper electrical wiring practices in these installation = instructions, but it is imperative that proper wiring techniques be = employed during the installation of the EC2."=20 It was my thought that avoiding the presence of loose metal objects = inside an electrical device that your life depends on fell into the = category of "needless to say". Nevertheless, a cautionary note might well be worth adding. As also = stated in the first paragraph of the instructions,=20 " I want your project to succeed and your life to be a long and happy = one. " All the best, Tracy Crook, RWS =20 On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 2:34 AM, David Leonard = wrote: Boy, word sure gets around these days.. =20 short answer... inadvertently hit cold start switch while messing with = GPS and flying at 1000' AGL.. not enough time to troubleshoot... had = to fly plane and find a place to land. Both happy and appalled when the I realized the problem 2 minutes = after the commotion stopped. The tower must have been plain appalled = when I took off again later this afternoon. --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net=20 On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Dave wrote: Bill Monroe wrote: Dave=92s going to have an interesting story to tell=85 http://www.cbs8.com/global/story.asp?s=3D12136229 Glad he landed safe.. -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01CAC353.0F6C7B30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You of course are totally correct Tracy. = Anyone who=20 signs up to build their own airplane, and to power it with an engine = that is not=20 what the designer recommended has to be willing to accept complete=20 responsibility for all installation and integration issues. Even if they = buy=20 hardware from a third party such as you.
 
Say what you want about standard aircraft = engines, but=20 at least the installation requirements are well known. I doubt there are = any two=20 rotary installations that are identical. We are on the bleeding=20 edge.
 
In my install I remote mounted the switches = from the=20 control panel. I did this for a number of reasons, one of which is I = chose to=20 use MS switches which are larger, much more robust, and have a much = stiffer snap=20 action when toggling. They are harder to accidentally switch but I have = still=20 had a couple of occasions where I've accidentally toggled the A - B = controller=20 selector while climbing in or out of the airplane. Like I said in my = previous,=20 I'm considering removing the cold start switch since I've never had a = need to=20 use it. Personal choice.
 
Can you give a little more detail about where = that nut=20 that shorted out the EC2 came from? Was it one of the nuts that secures = the pcb=20 to the case lid?
 
Mike Wills 

From: Tracy Crook
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:10 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ut-Oh...

I know Dave or Jon wouldn't phrase it this way but I've = already=20 received a number of messages from others about these two recent = in-flight power=20 failures due to EC2 issues.

 Jon's was due to a loose = mounting nut=20 inside the EC2 that shorted the main power input filter to ground and = burned=20 open both foils from the 2 power input pins.  How lucky was that.=20

  Anyway, at the risk of sounding defensive, I thought I'd = share my=20 response to one of them that suggested changing the EC2 case to an = external=20 mount of some sort.  I'm sure there are scores of messages on the = way=20 urging me to place switch guards on the cold start switch  :=20 )

REPLY

Hello ----------
  I'm aware of the = failure and=20 have the unit here for repair.

   Like a thousand other = critical details in building an aircraft, it is not possible to = explicitly spell=20 out all of them.  The precise method and hardware used to = accomplish it are=20 not part of the EC2 or the instructions. The first paragraph of the = installation=20 guide does say the following:
"Needless = to say,=20 the quality of installation is just as important as the quality of the = hardware=20 itself.  It is not practical to include a course on = proper=20 electrical wiring practices in these installation instructions, but it = is=20 imperative that proper wiring techniques be employed during the = installation of=20 the EC2."

It was my thought that avoiding the presence of loose = metal=20 objects inside an electrical device that your life depends on fell into = the=20 category of  "needless to say".

Nevertheless, a cautionary = note=20 might well be worth adding.   As also stated in the first = paragraph of=20 the instructions,
" I want your = project to=20 succeed and your life to be a long and happy one. "
All the = best,
Tracy Crook,    = RWS
 

On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 2:34 AM, David Leonard = <wdleonard@gmail.com> = wrote:
Boy,  word sure gets around these days.. =20

short answer... inadvertently hit cold start switch while = messing with=20 GPS and flying at 1000' AGL..  not enough time to = troubleshoot... =20 had to fly plane and find a place to land.

Both happy and = appalled when=20 the I realized the problem 2 minutes after the commotion = stopped.  The=20 tower must have been plain appalled when I took off again later this=20 afternoon.

--
David = Leonard

Turbo Rotary=20 RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.n= et=20


On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Dave <david.staten@gmail.com> wrote:
Bill Monroe wrote:

Dave=92s going to have an interesting story = to=20 tell=85

http://www.cbs8.com/global/story.asp?s=3D12136229
=
Glad=20 he landed safe..

--
Homepage: =  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l



------=_NextPart_000_003A_01CAC353.0F6C7B30--