X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4164255 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:02:10 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=E8Nt01KT0nQA:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=ekHE3smAAAAA:20 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=nUuTZ29dAAAA:8 a=T1bMLtZXJh7hLbW7ZtcA:9 a=PFQdCw_K9FNbHr6oVR4A:7 a=bJwu3OJF97-G4IaDdco3ojfWpRwA:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=1vhyWl4Y8LcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=919njR2JO7WjbiBFtTkA:9 a=_dtxOwz3g6mxt3AFITgA:7 a=bmKLeQ8HDQ7jlWb-Ocb493HNIeEA:4 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.191.186.236 Received: from [75.191.186.236] ([75.191.186.236:4519] helo=computername) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 1F/0B-21054-D1E0B9B4; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 04:01:34 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" Message-ID: <1F.0B.21054.D1E0B9B4@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] fuel supply problem? Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:02:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAC238.06414B60" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcrCV9EgLBYF2DfKRougDiHYTmN07AACA98w In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAC238.06414B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enough to get your heart pumping for sure. Been there {:>) Early in my flying days, I was in a similar type turn and was paying more attention to the buildings I had my wing tip anchored to than I should have been. All of a sudden, the engine started unwinding with a vengeance. I immediately leveled the air plane, where upon the engine caught again - but I was down to the last gallon or less - switched tanks and all was OK. I suspected that perhaps my "coordinated" turn was not as coordinated as I had thought. Both of my pumps can suck fuel from either tank, so can't help you there. I personally do not favor the one tank- one pump approach due to the fact if you did lose a pump - you could possibly lose access to a lot (perhaps a tank) of fuel. No problem flying locally perhaps, but a different story if between the west coast and New Mexico {:>). But, I realize there are advantages such as not needing a valve to switch tanks, but similar to having two CPUs for the fuel injectors either one of which can run the full set of injectors, I prefer both pumps having access to both tanks. Also, just for the heck of it you might check the tank for water. I flew into Shady Bend one time with my left tank dry. Sat out through a few rain shows, took off the next day and landed at Waycross, GA and filled the left tank and topped of the right one. About 30 minutes out, I decided to switch to the left tank, within seconds of switching the engine started surging. Having learned my lesson about switching tanks on my 12 mile glide a few years ago, I immediately switched back to the other tank and thankfully, everything returned to normal. I flew a bit further and go over a suitable air field and switched back to the left tank, again the surging - but I left it on this time an in about 20-30 seconds the surge disappeared. I thought I might have picked up some bad fuel - but not the case. Yep, you got it - should have drain the tanks for water, which I failed to do that morning. I can't prove it was water, but I did discover my left tank cap was not sealing as it should and I suspect the empty tank accumulated a cup or less of water. It settled to the bottom by the time I had flow 30 minutes and when I switched over all I got for the first 30 seconds or so was watery fuel which the engine did not like. So be careful - Mike. But, then that is what this test phase is all about - find out what might bite you while you are close to home. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Wills Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:49 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] fuel supply problem? Was out boring holes in the sky today trying to accumulate hours - finally a day off with no rain. About 2 hours into the flight, running on the left tank, and making a gentle left turn (maybe 20 - 30 degrees of bank), and the engine lost power. About 2 seconds later the engine monitor alarmed that the fuel pressure was below limits. By the time the alarm sounded I had already switched tanks and power was coming back up. My airplane is set up with 1 pump for each tank, so switching tanks actually means switching pumps too. Needless to say I returned home immediately on the right tank and the airplane ran OK all the way back. Once on the ground I did a full power runup switching tanks repeatedly and everything was fine. I'm not certain how much fuel is in the left tank, I'm guessing about 5 gallons. I'll find out tomorrow when I top off the tanks. The only thing I can guess is maybe the fuel in the tank drained away from the pickup in the turn? The turn was coordinated so in theory the pickup should have remained submerged. I might have to re-think the fuel system. Mike Wills __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAC238.06414B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Enough to get your heart pumping = for sure.  Been there {:>)

 

Early in my flying days, I was in a = similar type turn and was paying more attention to the buildings I had my wing = tip anchored to than I should have been.  All of a sudden, the engine = started unwinding with a vengeance.  I immediately leveled the air plane, where upon = the engine caught again – but I was down to the last gallon or less = – switched tanks and all was OK.  I suspected that perhaps my = “coordinated” turn was not as coordinated as I had = thought.

 

Both of my pumps can suck fuel from = either tank, so can’t help you there.  I personally do not favor the = one tank- one pump approach due to the fact if you did lose a pump – = you could possibly lose access to a lot (perhaps a tank) of fuel.  No problem = flying locally perhaps, but a different story if between the west coast and = New Mexico {:>).  But, I realize there are advantages such as not needing a = valve to switch tanks, but similar to having two CPUs for the fuel injectors = either one of which can run the full set of injectors, I prefer both pumps = having access to both tanks.

 

Also, just for the heck of it you = might check the tank for water.  I flew into Shady Bend one time with my = left tank dry.  Sat out through a few rain shows, took off the next day = and landed at Waycross, GA and filled the left tank and = topped of the right one.  About 30 minutes out, I decided to switch to the = left tank, within seconds of switching the engine started surging.  = Having learned my lesson about switching tanks on my 12 mile glide a few years = ago, I immediately switched back to the other tank and thankfully, everything = returned to normal.  I flew a bit further and go over a suitable air field = and switched back to the left tank, again the surging – but I left it = on this time an in about 20-30 seconds the surge disappeared. I thought I might = have picked up some bad fuel – but not the = case.

 

Yep, you got it – should have = drain the tanks for water, which I failed to do that morning.  I = can’t prove it was water, but I did discover my left tank cap was not sealing = as it should and I suspect the empty tank accumulated a cup or less of = water.  It settled to the bottom by the time I had flow 30 minutes and when I = switched over all I got for the first 30 seconds or so was watery fuel which the = engine did not like.

 

So be careful – Mike.  = But, then that is what this test phase is all about – find out what = might bite you while you are close to home.

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Wills
Sent: Friday, March 12, = 2010 9:49 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] fuel = supply problem?

 

Was out boring holes in the sky today trying to = accumulate hours - finally a day off with no rain. About 2 hours into the flight, = running on the left tank, and making a gentle left turn (maybe 20 - 30 degrees = of bank), and the engine lost power. About 2 seconds later the engine = monitor alarmed that the fuel pressure was below limits. By the time the alarm = sounded I had already switched tanks and power was coming back up. My airplane = is set up with 1 pump for each tank, so switching tanks actually means = switching pumps too.

 

Needless to say I returned home immediately on the = right tank and the airplane ran OK all the way back. Once on the ground I did = a full power runup switching tanks repeatedly and everything was fine. I'm not = certain how much fuel is in the left tank, I'm guessing about 5 = gallons. I'll find out tomorrow when I top off the tanks.

 

The only thing I can guess is maybe the fuel in the = tank drained away from the pickup in the turn? The turn was coordinated so in = theory the pickup should have remained submerged. I might have to re-think the = fuel system.

 

Mike Wills



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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