X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail.iuncapped.co.za ([196.214.56.106] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.1) with ESMTP id 4085571 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 17 Jan 2010 08:58:27 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=196.214.56.106; envelope-from=charlesd1@telkomsa.net Received: from pc1 (unknown [192.168.9.2]) by mail.iuncapped.co.za (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D5987D83EF for ; Sun, 17 Jan 2010 15:53:17 +0200 (SAST) From: "Charles Davis" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternator Filter Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 15:57:43 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01CA978D.CDF440C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-IUncapped-MailScanner-Information: Please contact DcData Support (support@dcdata.co.za) X-IUncapped-MailScanner-ID: 6D5987D83EF.AC626 X-IUncapped-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-IUncapped-MailScanner-From: charlesd1@telkomsa.net X-Spam-Status: No This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CA978D.CDF440C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joe, If the earthling (ground) between the alternator, the engine-block, and the system ground is not 110%, as soon as the alternator comes on-line, the block's 'ground' voltage will rise - this will cause all sorts of havoc with the electronics. Just another thought. Charles -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Joe Ewen Sent: 16 January 2010 05:37 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternator Filter Been there don that. Thaks for the input. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Whaley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:58 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternator Filter Hey Joe, if the capacitor becomes resistive and they can, you will have a dc connection to ground. Measure the filter (if you haven't already) to ensure it is 100% open-circuit. Jeff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Joe Ewen [jewen@comporium.net] Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:12 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Alternator Filter I have been having problems with my engine installation. Starts, runs great - turn on the alternator and the engine starts to miss. Put a scope on R1 ignition trigger lead and sure enough missing trigger pulses. Turn alternator off no more missing pulses. Looked at the alternator output with the scope and as expected saw some spikes. Bought an aircraft spruce alternator filter. Ran the engine , worked fine until it would not prime or run any more. That turned out to be a defective store switch. Replaced the switch and back to normal. Here is the part I do not yet understand. Engine runs fine, added alternator filter and can not even get a pop. Take the filter off, starts fine. Filter back on (alt off), no joy. Filter on (alt on), no joy. Filter off, runs fine. I can not imagine how a filter capacitor is interfering with the ignition of the controller. If anyone has any insight please feel to speak up. I have 2 wiring ducts: 1. quiet - signals such as to the PCM, ignition firing leads, low voltage sensor, analog signals. 2. Noisy side, battery cables, ignition power, injector power and signal (twisted pair shielded (shield properly grounded.) Alternator connects to battery cable at the starter. If I run an external wire between the alternator and the battery (outside the airframe, long wire - engine in back, battery in front (canard)) everything runs fine.) Aesthetically this might not be a good approach, not to mention the aerodynamic impact. This problem has kicked my butt this week working on it in the cool 20F evening air. Any insight is appreciated, especially why a capacitor (which does not conduct DC) would render the EC2 controller inoperative would be appreciated. Thanks, Joe This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CA978D.CDF440C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=20 Joe,
 
If the=20 earthling (ground) between the alternator,  the engine-block, and = the=20 system ground is not 110%, as soon as the alternator comes on-line, = the=20 block's 'ground' voltage will rise - this will cause all sorts of havoc = with the=20 electronics.
 
Just=20 another thought.
 
Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors = in=20 aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Joe=20 Ewen
Sent: 16 January 2010 05:37 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternator=20 Filter

Been there don that.  Thaks for = the=20 input.
 
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jeff=20 Whaley
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Saturday, January 16, = 2010 9:58=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Alternator=20 Filter

Hey Joe, = if the=20 capacitor becomes resistive and they can, you will have a dc = connection to=20 ground.
Measure = the filter=20 (if you haven't already) to ensure it is 100% = open-circuit.
Jeff
From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Joe Ewen=20 [jewen@comporium.net]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 6:12=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Alternator Filter

I have been having problems with my = engine=20 installation.  Starts, runs great - turn on the alternator and = the=20 engine starts to miss.  Put a scope on R1 ignition trigger lead = and=20 sure enough missing trigger pulses.   Turn alternator off = no more=20 missing pulses.  Looked at the alternator output with the scope = and as=20 expected saw some spikes.  Bought an aircraft spruce alternator = filter.  Ran the engine , worked fine until it would not prime = or run=20 any more.  That turned out to be a defective store = switch. =20 Replaced the switch and back to normal.  Here is the part I do = not yet=20 understand.
 
Engine runs fine, added alternator = filter and=20 can not even get a pop.  Take the filter off, starts = fine.  Filter=20 back on (alt off), no joy.  Filter on (alt on), no = joy. Filter=20 off, runs fine.  I can not imagine how a filter capacitor is=20 interfering with the ignition of the controller.  If anyone has = any=20 insight please feel to speak up.
 
I have 2 wiring ducts: 1. quiet - = signals such=20 as to the PCM, ignition firing leads, low voltage sensor, analog=20 signals.  2. Noisy side, battery cables, ignition power, = injector power=20 and signal (twisted pair shielded (shield properly = grounded.)
 
Alternator connects to battery = cable at the=20 starter.  If I run an external wire between the alternator and = the=20 battery (outside the airframe, long wire - engine in back, battery = in front=20 (canard)) everything runs fine.) Aesthetically this might not = be a good=20 approach, not to mention the aerodynamic impact.
 
This problem has kicked my butt = this week=20 working on it in the cool 20F evening air.  Any insight is = appreciated,=20 especially why a capacitor (which does not conduct DC) would render = the EC2=20 controller inoperative would be appreciated.
 
Thanks,
Joe
 

This message, and the documents = attached=20 hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain = privileged or=20 confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly=20 prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please = notify us=20 immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then = delete=20 the original message. Thank=20 you.
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