X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.0) with ESMTP id 4061308 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:00:19 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=Fd91bCVGJ9sA:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=ekHE3smAAAAA:20 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=pedpZTtsAAAA:8 a=nUuTZ29dAAAA:8 a=cPqXfYwk_LF8BeUSnQsA:9 a=8MGooqKFOlAY7d_xMh0A:7 a=jrcKETqACA65i9B2vUjLDCDGLUwA:4 a=1vhyWl4Y8LcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=eJojReuL3h0A:10 a=hqhuoflVHG984iib:21 a=SGg0V6IqsZrX02xW:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=iQrSI0zm8XCYMAMrD1gA:9 a=1j7PXglyHKnTYY9bRKsA:7 a=u6WQc-cTtIBVJwBsLPFNEVN_iw8A:4 a=cVIOY9eQBjhzfpNp:21 a=X4zvIrx-ljKVLpWE:21 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.191.186.236 Received: from [75.191.186.236] ([75.191.186.236:2993] helo=computername) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id D7/77-07778-0D1CF3B4; Sat, 02 Jan 2010 21:59:45 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" Message-ID: To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 16:59:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01CA8BCC.FDDDC800" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcqL8c8DpHOors3zSHeOzQzAEm7xjQABKtRA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01CA8BCC.FDDDC800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, Jim, my son-in-law had a car with four O2 sensor. Seems there were two right outside the exhaust ports and then two more either right before or right after the catalytic converter. But, as you say - expensive. But, I must admit I am sort of getting itchy figures to get my hand one as the wide band will fit the bung for the narrow band. I think all I will have to do is reprogram the analog/digit converter routine making it a bit wider and a bit of linearization. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of James Maher Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 4:23 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year Ed, About the least expensive 4 wire oxygen sensor that I have found was the one for my Geo Metro which is a Bosch P/N15733 universal for $70 at Autozone. I think that is about 3 times what I paid for the single wire I am using on the airplane now. But still not too bad considering what some cost. I have a friend with a Volvo that has 2 sensors, one is $250 and the other is $350, ouch. And that does not include installation. Jim Ed Anderson wrote: From: Ed Anderson Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 3:55 PM Actually, Bill, now that the wide band sensor have come down in price (were over $250 when I first started looking at them a few years back), I may consider re-writing some of the EFISM code, so that a buyer would have the choice of narrow band or wide band ( they would have to provide the sensor and I would probably suggest the Bosch). I personally believe that the narrow band O2 gives all the useful information we need - but, hey, if some folks want a wide band then the customer is always right {:>). The only real difference is the voltage curve extends over a wider range (like 0 - 3.5 volts, it varies) and most importantly is much more linear than the 'Z" curve of the narrow band. I may have to get one to play with. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 2:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year Maybe so, but it seems no farther than it is in the car and that has to work quicker than it does in our app. Cars don't go all squirrely when you coast down a long hill??? We all need broad band sensors so we can tell what is really going on. I am hoping that Ed will get upset by all this and build one we can buy from him for about a buck! :>) When can we expect the prototype, Ed?? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Wills Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 12:16 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year My exhaust header is an equal length type with 28" inch primaries into a 2 -> 1 merge collector. The O2 sensor is threaded into the collector so I estimate it is about 36" from the exhaust port. It usually takes about a minute for the readings to settle down after a cold start, but I've always assumed that they were accurate - even at idle. Maybe that is an incorrect assumption. Mike From: Bill Bradburry Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 6:48 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year Happy New Year everybody! Mike, How far from the exhaust ports is your O2 sensor located? Does anyone know what the minimum temp is for the O2 sensor? 800 degrees? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:31 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year Happy New Year to you, Mike Wow. I'll bet you are glad to be in a different year and glad the old one gone. I noted your comment on the lean/rich possible O2 cause. Do you have a heated (3-4 wire) O2 sensor or an unheated one?? Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Wills Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 9:43 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] first flight of the new year Hope the holidays are treating you all well. Things are kind of slow on the list this week. So figured I'd get things going. I havent flown for almost 2 months. First my nephew's accident (he's recovering amazingly well). Then travel for work. Then had to do an annual on the airplane. Finally, had surgery to remove my appendix and gall bladder. Been a busy couple of months. But I'm feeling pretty good now, the airplane is ready for its first flight after the annual, and today was a spectacular day here with clear blue sky, unlimited visibility, light breeze, and temps in the mid 60s. I resolved a number of minor issues during the annual, including the gas smell that I've been living with for a while now. Found my left tank vent line was loose where it penetrates the bottom of the fuselage so was venting into the cockpit. The smell is now completely gone. Also found a solution to a problem I've been noticing since I've started flying further from the airport. I'd noted on previous flights when returning to the airport with a long low power descent that the engine runs quite lean as I enter the pattern requiring the mixture knob to be turned full rich. On a couple of occasions I've had some misfiring as I turn final - quite an attention getter! Today I realized the problem was a non-problem, in other words operator error. While descending (and for that matter, frequently at other times) I tweak the mixture based on the mixture monitor reading. Today I ignored the monitor and just left the mixture alone which worked just fine. I think during prolonged low power descents the O2 sensor cools off and provides an inaccurate reading. The occasional misfire was the result of running too rich (the mixture monitor indicated mid range readings). So todays flight was trouble free and gets me an hour closer to the end of phase 1. 18 hours down, 22 to go. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01CA8BCC.FDDDC800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, Jim, my son-in-law had a car = with four O2 sensor.  Seems there were two right outside the exhaust ports = and then two more either right before or right after the catalytic converter.  = But, as you say – expensive.  But, I must admit I am sort of getting = itchy figures to get my hand one as the wide band will fit the bung for the narrow = band.  I think all I will have to do is reprogram the analog/digit converter routine = making it a bit wider and a bit of linearization.

 

 

 

Ed

 

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary = Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com=

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.r= otaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of James Maher
Sent: Saturday, January = 02, 2010 4:23 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = first flight of the new year

 

Ed,

About the least expensive 4 wire oxygen = sensor that I have found was the one for my Geo Metro which is a Bosch P/N15733 = universal for $70 at Autozone.

I think that is about 3 times what I paid = for the single wire I am using on the airplane = now.

But still not too bad considering what some = cost.

I have a friend with a Volvo that has 2 = sensors, one is $250 and the other is $350, ouch.

And that does not include = installation.

 

Jim

Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> = wrote:


From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year
To: "Rotary motors in = aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 3:55 PM

Actually, Bill, now that the wide band sensor have come = down in price (were over $250 when I first started looking at them a few years = back), I may consider  re-writing some of the EFISM code, so that a = buyer would have the choice of narrow band or wide band ( they would have to = provide the sensor and I would probably suggest the Bosch).  I personally = believe that the narrow band O2  gives all the useful information we need = – but, hey, if some folks want a wide band then the customer is always right {:>).  The only real difference is the voltage curve extends = over a wider range (like 0 – 3.5 volts, it varies) and most importantly = is much more linear than the ‘Z” curve of the narrow = band.

 

I may have to get one to play = with.

 

Ed

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Saturday, January = 02, 2010 2:02 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: first flight of the new year

 

Maybe so, but it seems no farther than it is in the car and that has to work quicker = than it does in our app.  Cars don’t go all squirrely when you = coast down a long hill???  We all need broad band sensors so we can tell what is = really going on.  I am hoping that Ed will get upset by all this and = build one we can buy from him for about a buck!   = :>)

When can we expect the prototype, Ed??

 

Bill B 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Wills
Sent: Saturday, January = 02, 2010 12:16 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: first flight of the new year

My exhaust header is an equal length type with 28" inch primaries = into a 2 -> 1 merge collector. The O2 sensor is threaded into the collector = so I estimate it is about 36" from the exhaust port. It usually takes = about a minute for the readings to settle down after a cold start, but I've = always assumed that they were accurate - even at idle. Maybe that is an = incorrect assumption.

 

Mike


 

From: Bill Bradburry =

Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 6:48 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new = year

 

Happy New Year everybody!

 

Mike,

How = far from the exhaust ports is your O2 sensor located?  Does anyone know what = the minimum temp is for the O2 sensor?  800 = degrees?

 

Bill B 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Saturday, January = 02, 2010 8:31 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: first flight of the new year

Happy New Year to you, Mike

 

Wow.  I’ll bet you are glad to be in a = different year and glad the old one gone.

 

I noted your comment on the lean/rich possible O2 = cause.  Do you have a heated (3-4 wire) O2 sensor or an unheated = one??

 

Ed

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Wills
Sent: Friday, January = 01, 2010 9:43 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = first flight of the new year

 

Hope the holidays are treating you all well. Things are kind of slow on the = list this week. So figured I'd get things = going.

 

I havent flown for almost 2 months. First my nephew's accident (he's = recovering amazingly well). Then travel for work. Then had to do an annual on the airplane. Finally, had surgery to remove my appendix and gall bladder. = Been a busy couple of months.

 

But I'm feeling pretty good now, the airplane is ready for its first = flight after the annual, and today was a spectacular day here with clear blue sky, unlimited visibility, light breeze, and temps in the mid 60s. I = resolved a number of minor issues during the annual, including the gas smell that I've been living with for a while now. Found my left tank = vent line was loose where it penetrates the bottom of the fuselage so was = venting into the cockpit. The smell is now completely = gone.

 

Also found a solution to a problem I've been noticing since I've started = flying further from the airport. I'd noted on previous flights when returning = to the airport with a long low power descent that the engine runs quite lean = as I enter the pattern requiring the mixture knob to be turned full rich. = On a couple of occasions I've had some misfiring as I turn final - quite an attention getter! Today I realized the problem was a non-problem, in = other words operator error. While descending (and for that matter, = frequently at other times) I tweak the mixture based on the mixture monitor reading. = Today I ignored the monitor and just left the mixture alone which worked = just fine. I think during prolonged low power descents the O2 sensor = cools off and provides an inaccurate reading. The occasional misfire was the = result of running too rich (the mixture monitor indicated mid range = readings).

 

So todays flight was trouble free and gets me an hour closer to the end = of phase 1. 18 hours down, 22 to go.

 

Mike Wills

RV-4 N144MW  



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com=



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com=

 

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