X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from web83916.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.92.127] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.0) with SMTP id 4061294 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:23:12 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.92.127; envelope-from=delta11xd@att.net Received: (qmail 74376 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2010 21:22:37 -0000 Message-ID: <469404.74372.qm@web83916.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 6qRfKqMVM1l5bEyXWIcxg6UMf6evtIi.OmiiQxK7uQq2FxGkHzdFIsohFwyNL3k7oiu0.wEPfbIKIqMQBTwURQ0HVJsViMk4fHaGQ3Ccz.4BoJgFCZxiYz8jR9VAkNMz.ulNhtRA7FKqnTafQQsiDo61PiCXvnawUS5UIjiKVBypyl7h2fSij8iy1BZazzcuYSSAPXfnexR1FqFbU0YL45uQpxnWrWyCructK0830n04gJYBCpbLLQo.Z5QeCM474pOuxP1mwhZhTviVAMmGdT2kZ.QNyb3VAQwsGkidpwsuWvRL4WvTtwMaSqFKNhLyP32ODeISDU.e2oCrcL1qE7xhbUVJkUCC.Y3tYixP0Ei2aIiWWZWurzqu38KewoNjIPwGbHqGOjGQ3mgxhlpEZkePf4JX250lvOLsJhJSWJx1BQMWY2OYYprJactCCfVILrDKpAc.TVGa04bVN4Vf8HTpyhEIeMOw_.2qNsRqSqiJwkN3CmXWpIpPqbM7oUWYSs3LISiR2Te1ckHKCyyv9Q1AVYEpfijIelWt0p2BSjZUQ1pGiX7ZyGL2BI.S2pxfDGzOyVhCs1KXpoA9Uxku81Mbz1W94z2c.YrB7BCHMqi8UItZkq8B5jZLxj8fkAFoBBgO79lOML.ulk3hIzO3c43IAFoOQOt3.4JjJ4YBlmKiPlGK7SEl3In6ZHJA6txCtqqq9jbJRXX2bCCyvG4DApjrLMob8GdnQBu02DYs1KG7lIw1h0_Pn41gIpem2fdMDUyjZ4AyuZa_8YZ5XEnYnp3iJUSvDYQvZIgx.kHChVyDBqZVX95Sv70HrJ1Fs.WNRxdfKKX17VviTn4daqftVNcyoR1P8igrqQ-- Received: from [76.225.189.86] by web83916.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 02 Jan 2010 13:22:36 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.0.20 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 13:22:36 -0800 (PST) From: James Maher Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1885529849-1262467356=:74372" --0-1885529849-1262467356=:74372 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed, About the least expensive 4 wire oxygen sensor that I have found was the on= e for my Geo Metro which is a Bosch P/N15733 universal for $70 at Autozone. I think that is about 3 times what I paid for the single wire I am using=C2= =A0on the airplane now. But still not too bad considering what some cost. I have a friend with a Volvo that has 2 sensors, one is $250 and the other = is $350, ouch. And that does not include installation. =C2=A0 Jim Ed Anderson wrote: From: Ed Anderson Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 3:55 PM Actually, Bill, now that the wide band sensor have come down in price (were= over $250 when I first started looking at them a few years back), I may co= nsider=C2=A0 re-writing some of the EFISM code, so that a buyer would have = the choice of narrow band or wide band ( they would have to provide the sen= sor and I would probably suggest the Bosch).=C2=A0 I personally believe tha= t the narrow band O2 =C2=A0gives all the useful information we need =E2=80= =93 but, hey, if some folks want a wide band then the customer is always ri= ght {:>).=C2=A0 The only real difference is the voltage curve extends over = a wider range (like 0 =E2=80=93 3.5 volts, it varies) and most importantly = is much more linear than the =E2=80=98Z=E2=80=9D curve of the narrow band. =C2=A0 I may have to get one to play with. =C2=A0 Ed =C2=A0 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 2:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year =C2=A0 Maybe so, but it seems no farther than it is in the car and that has to wor= k quicker than it does in our app.=C2=A0 Cars don=E2=80=99t go all squirrel= y when you coast down a long hill???=C2=A0 We all need broad band sensors s= o we can tell what is really going on.=C2=A0 I am hoping that Ed will get u= pset by all this and build one we can buy from him for about a buck!=C2=A0= =C2=A0 :>) When can we expect the prototype, Ed?? =C2=A0 Bill B=C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Mike Wills Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 12:16 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year My exhaust header is an equal length type with 28" inch primaries into a 2 = -> 1 merge collector. The O2 sensor is threaded into the collector so I est= imate it is about 36" from the exhaust port. It usually takes about a minut= e for the readings to settle down after a cold start, but I've always assum= ed that they were accurate - even at idle. Maybe that is an incorrect assum= ption. =C2=A0 Mike =C2=A0 From: Bill Bradburry=20 Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 6:48 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year =C2=A0 Happy New Year everybody! =C2=A0 Mike, How far from the exhaust ports is your O2 sensor located?=C2=A0 Does anyone= know what the minimum temp is for the O2 sensor?=C2=A0 800 degrees? =C2=A0 Bill B=C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:31 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year Happy New Year to you, Mike =C2=A0 Wow.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ll bet you are glad to be in a different year and glad= the old one gone. =C2=A0 I noted your comment on the lean/rich possible O2 cause.=C2=A0 Do you have = a heated (3-4 wire) O2 sensor or an unheated one?? =C2=A0 Ed =C2=A0 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Mike Wills Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 9:43 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] first flight of the new year =C2=A0 Hope the holidays are treating you all well. Things are kind of slow on the= list this week. So figured I'd get things going. =C2=A0 I havent flown for almost 2 months. First my nephew's accident (he's recove= ring amazingly well). Then travel for work. Then had to do an annual on the= airplane. Finally, had surgery to remove my appendix and gall bladder. Bee= n a busy couple of months. =C2=A0 But I'm feeling pretty good now, the airplane is ready for its first flight= after the annual, and today was a spectacular day here with clear blue sky= , unlimited visibility, light breeze, and temps in the mid 60s. I resolved = a number of minor issues during the annual, including the gas smell that=C2= =A0I've been living with for a while now. Found my left tank vent line was = loose where it penetrates the bottom of the fuselage so was venting into th= e cockpit. The smell is now completely gone. =C2=A0 Also found a solution to a problem I've been noticing since I've started fl= ying further from the airport. I'd noted on previous flights when returning= to the airport with a long low power descent that the engine runs quite le= an as I enter the pattern requiring the mixture knob to be turned full rich= . On a couple of occasions I've had some misfiring as I turn final - quite = an attention getter! Today I realized the problem was a non-problem, in oth= er words operator error. While descending (and for that matter, frequently = at other times) I tweak the mixture based on the mixture monitor reading. T= oday I ignored the monitor and just left the mixture alone which worked jus= t fine. I think during prolonged=C2=A0low power descents the=C2=A0O2 sensor= cools off and provides an inaccurate reading. The occasional misfire was t= he result of running too rich (the mixture monitor indicated mid range read= ings). =C2=A0 So todays flight was trouble free and gets me an hour closer to the end of = phase 1. 18 hours down, 22 to go. =C2=A0 Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW=C2=A0=C2=A0 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --0-1885529849-1262467356=:74372 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ed,
About the least expensive 4 wire oxygen sensor that I have found was t= he one for my Geo Metro which is a Bosch P/N15733 universal for $70 at Auto= zone.
I think that is about 3 times what I paid for the single wire I am usi= ng on the airplane now.
But still not too bad considering what some cost.
I have a friend with a Volvo that has 2 sensors, one is $250 and the o= ther is $350, ouch.
And that does not include installation.
 
Jim

Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>= wrote:

From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year
To: "Rotary = motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Saturday, = January 2, 2010, 3:55 PM

Actually, Bill, now t= hat the wide band sensor have come down in price (were over $250 when I fir= st started looking at them a few years back), I may consider  re-writi= ng some of the EFISM code, so that a buyer would have the choice of narrow = band or wide band ( they would have to provide the sensor and I would proba= bly suggest the Bosch).  I personally believe that the narrow band O2 =  gives all the useful information we need =E2=80=93 but, hey, if some = folks want a wide band then the customer is always right {:>).  The= only real difference is the voltage curve extends over a wider range (like= 0 =E2=80=93 3.5 volts, it varies) and most importantly is much more linear= than the =E2=80=98Z=E2=80=9D curve of the narrow band.

 <= /DIV>

I may have to get one= to play with.

 <= /DIV>

Ed

 <= /DIV>

Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2= 010 2:02 PM
To: Rotary m= otors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year

 

Maybe so, but it seems no farther than it is in the car a= nd that has to work quicker than it does in our app.  Cars don=E2=80= =99t go all squirrely when you coast down a long hill???  We all need = broad band sensors so we can tell what is really going on.  I am hopin= g that Ed will get upset by all this and build one we can buy from him for = about a buck!   :>)

When can we expect the prototype, Ed??

 

Bill B 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyro= tary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of <= /SPAN>Mike Wills
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 12:16 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year<= /SPAN>

My exhaust header is an equal length type wit= h 28" inch primaries into a 2 -> 1 merge collector. The O2 sensor is thr= eaded into the collector so I estimate it is about 36" from the exhaust por= t. It usually takes about a minute for the readings to settle down after a = cold start, but I've always assumed that they were accurate - even at idle.= Maybe that is an incorrect assumption.

 

Mike

=


 

Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 6:48 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of = the new year

 

Happy New Year everybody!

 

Mike,

How far from the exhaust ports is your O2 sensor located?=   Does anyone know what the minimum temp is for the O2 sensor?  8= 00 degrees?

 

Bill B 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyro= tary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of <= /SPAN>Ed Anderson
Sent:<= /B> Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:31 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: first flight of the new year<= /SPAN>

Happy New Year to you= , Mike

 <= /DIV>

Wow.  I=E2=80=99= ll bet you are glad to be in a different year and glad the old one gone.

 <= /DIV>

I noted your comment = on the lean/rich possible O2 cause.  Do you have a heated (3-4 wire) O= 2 sensor or an unheated one??

 <= /DIV>

Ed

 <= /DIV>

Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Wills
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 9:= 43 PM
To: Rotary motors = in aircraft
Subject: [Fl= yRotary] first flight of the new year

 

Hope the holidays are treating you all well. = Things are kind of slow on the list this week. So figured I'd get things go= ing.

 

I havent flown for almost 2 months. First my = nephew's accident (he's recovering amazingly well). Then travel for work. T= hen had to do an annual on the airplane. Finally, had surgery to remove my = appendix and gall bladder. Been a busy couple of months.

 

But I'm feeling pretty good now, the airplane= is ready for its first flight after the annual, and today was a spectacula= r day here with clear blue sky, unlimited visibility, light breeze, and tem= ps in the mid 60s. I resolved a number of minor issues during the annual, i= ncluding the gas smell that I've been living with for a while now. Fou= nd my left tank vent line was loose where it penetrates the bottom of the f= uselage so was venting into the cockpit. The smell is now completely gone.<= /SPAN>

 

Also found a solution to a problem I've been = noticing since I've started flying further from the airport. I'd noted on p= revious flights when returning to the airport with a long low power descent= that the engine runs quite lean as I enter the pattern requiring the mixtu= re knob to be turned full rich. On a couple of occasions I've had some misf= iring as I turn final - quite an attention getter! Today I realized the pro= blem was a non-problem, in other words operator error. While descending (an= d for that matter, frequently at other times) I tweak the mixture based on = the mixture monitor reading. Today I ignored the monitor and just left the = mixture alone which worked just fine. I think during prolonged low pow= er descents the O2 sensor cools off and provides an inaccurate reading= . The occasional misfire was the result of running too rich (the mixture monitor indicated mid range readings).

 

So todays flight was trouble free and gets me= an hour closer to the end of phase 1. 18 hours down, 22 to go.

 

Mike Wills

RV-4 N144MW  



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,= version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The = message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,= version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The = message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

--0-1885529849-1262467356=:74372--