X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.202] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c2) with SMTP id 3977602 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:25:37 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.142.198.202; envelope-from=ceengland@bellsouth.net Received: (qmail 92425 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2009 03:25:02 -0000 Received: from adsl-19-145-69.jan.bellsouth.net (ceengland@68.19.145.69 with plain) by smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2009 19:25:02 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: uXJ_6LOswBCr8InijhYErvjWlJuRkoKPGNeiuu7PA.5wcGoy X-YMail-OSG: Z76FEBQVM1mQBNyBZZSVjMPBzr.2XioZXwFghCavRGo27jpxrEx8DMryJ4hKw4Nv12MVs7QIW78ZorbqIXLBNNGsotUdBE6JjkPIx4YI8ZZCdcraswd_kyy7WYxCQ6zjQQM20K4xaniVDTRAyUKWSp4rMcJdNqtbJovT7ba3CikMfkh3MvIyLt3rv5k7gLXYC584JwnTpax8DnwGVYqzYsZ9jyozLpGlBxB4og-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4B00C60F.6060802@bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:25:03 -0600 From: Charlie England User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Phononic bandgap muffler[edit] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charlie England wrote: > Ernest Christley wrote: >> Here's a question for you audiophiles on the list. How much effort >> is 10dB of muffling worth? >> >> I've expanded on my experiments with phononic bandgap filters, and I >> think I've fairly conclusively demonstrated up to 15dB of >> attenutation in the frequency ranges between 8kHz and 12kHz. I used >> the run-up video that Mike Wills provided for us a few weeks back >> (thanks Mike), and I was a little more methodical than last time. >> >> For those that don't remember, a phononic bandgap filter is created >> by geometric arrangement of dissimillar materials, with the goal of >> filtering specific vibration frequencies. It appears that 1/2" >> diameter tubes, arranged in a grid with 1" centers does a nice job of >> attenuating frequencies in the 8kH to 12kHz range. >> I set up my simulated muffler...a wooden shell with PVC filter >> elements. I stuck a couple speakers in the inlet side, and a >> microphone on the outlet side. In this setup, there is going to be >> all sorts of losses from the conversion from an electronic signal to >> sound in the speaker, then conversion of sound to an electronics >> signal in the microphone. Comparing the original to the recorded >> muffled sound, which I did in the first experiment, is not valid. >> >> What I did this time instead, is to compare several recordings. Each >> with one less row of filter elements than the last, until I was >> measuring an empty box. The empty box measurement is the control >> that lets me know if I'm doing anything with the array of tubes. >> What I found was that each row of tubes provide a significant >> attenuation in the frequencies between 8kHz and 12kHz. The ones that >> give us the weed-wacker sound. I determined this by taking a time >> sample across each of the 5 recordings and having Audacity plot the >> spectrum. >> >> I have an xcf file created by The Gimp ( a free image editing >> software). The xcf format allows you to keep an image in layers. >> Each of the plots is in a separate layer, and by playing with the >> opacity individual layers, you can easily see where the attenuation >> occurs. The file is 465kB so I can't post it to the list, but if >> anyone is interested, I'll be happy to send it direct. I'll do a >> writeup with links to the audio files "real soon now". >> I have attached a flatten image showing the 0 row run, against the 4 >> row run. The 0 run is the lighter purple shade. There are some some >> frequencies where the 4 row would be louder....around 4kHz and >> 7kHz, but I think the attenuation of those frequencies around 10kHz >> would be most beneficial. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > > Hi Earnest, > > 10-15dB is a very respectable reduction. A 10 dB change is a 10X power > change and a perceived doubling or halving in volume to the human ear > (dB's are a logarithmic power measurement). > > However, I doubt that working on the 8k-12k range is going to have > much effect on the perceived noise from a rotary, for a couple of > reasons. I can't find the emails & info from Monty Roberts' testing a > few years ago, but IIRC, the problem areas are much lower in > frequency. Look at the ~1k-2khz area & the edit here: should read that the 3k-4khz stuff and above, not just those freqs above 4khz, were due to ringing of the muffler itself > ~3.5k-4khz areas. Those areas are much stronger, and they are in the > 'zone' where human hearing is most sensitive. When Monty did his > testing, the stuff above 4khz was harmonics radiating off the muffler > itself (the muffler 'rings' like a bell). The muffler wasn't enclosed > in a cowling. > > So here's what I think. The 8khz & above stuff is barely audible to > people over 40, or who have rock concerts in their history, or fly > airplanes for any length of time. Additionally, stuff in that > frequency range hates to turn corners and is easily absorbed by > relatively low mass materials. When you take those two factors into > consideration together, something as simple as enclosing the muffler > in a housing that won't sustain a resonance (think fiberglass cowling) > will kill just about all of it. The stuff under 4khz, though, is a bit > harder to deal with, and that spot down below 2khz is really tough. As > I mentioned earlier, those are much more likely to sound offensive, too. > > If you can suppress the 1k-2khz range, the higher freqs will likely > take care of themselves because they are harmonics of the lower freq > stuff. > > Remember the discussion about Paul Conner's engine with the stock > exhaust manifold? The cast iron was massive enough to absorb all those > higher order harmonics and the FG cowl finished the work, even with > the exhaust being dumped out the cowl with just a little 8-10" stub > pipe off the manifold. It wasn't 'quiet', but it was very pleasing to > listen to, like a small block V-8. Of course, the downside for a > non-renesis 13B is the loss of power because you don't get a tuning > boost from a header. The only other pleasant-sounding rotary plane > that I've personally listened to (other than turbo'd engines) is > Dennis Haverlah's Renesis, and it uses the stock Renesis exhaust > manifold. If you look at the way it's constructed, it's made of 3 > layers of material, apparently for noise suppression and heat > shielding in one package. > > If Monty reads this, maybe he can repost his test results & expand on > or correct what I've written here. > > It might be helpful to load a tone generator program & listen to > various frequencies to get an idea of what each frequency sounds like. > If you use Audacity or a similar sound editing program, it has a tone > generator built in. > > Charlie