X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao107.cox.net ([68.230.241.39] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c2) with ESMTP id 3975711 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:23:28 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.39; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao107.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20091114032253.YSCA21470.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:22:53 -0500 Received: from wills ([68.105.88.66]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id 4rNr1d0081RtBmC04rNtND; Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:22:53 -0500 X-VR-Score: 0.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=T55YoeTgZ5UA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=xQzK0zUlAAAA:8 a=txjn6cFluNK5HItKTHUA:9 a=0_s_mev82qatBXi_jVsA:7 a=lvBV4RH5Gyh25_PR4ZNDrH5ph5EA:4 a=dltGVuZxrH0A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=JOEiDjJ3DGdcrm3Z:21 a=gktdg0gXY2tIMMZ8:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=Hl1Gy0H5AAAA:8 a=I3KBTIsVi5MaMYGD6sYA:9 a=5kESb6q-3zoniGeg62EA:7 a=M9DTsV_sp7hw5XKyohH1G_rP2H0A:4 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: renesis stock exhaust flange Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:22:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01CA6496.B18FE530" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01CA6496.B18FE530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually Inconel is probably best. I'll grant you that 304 will work (if = you go heavy enough) and that its cheaper. Taken to an extreme you could = follow Mazda's example and use cast iron. As an example a 1 3/4" x .065" 304 U bend from Burns is about $50 it = weighs 2.34#. The same (more or less) bend from Kevin's source is = clearly a bargain at about $20. Or you could go with Burns 321 with = .032" wall for about $50, same price as their heavier 304. The 321 piece = weighs1.28#. That's just one example chosen at random - others may show = more or less difference in price. I guess the bottom line is that you are either going to pay extra $ or = extra #. I'd guess going with 321 over 304 might have cost me an extra = $200. And I probably saved at least 5 pounds in exhaust system weight. = The weight saved is actually significantly greater because I'd have = ended up adding tail weight to offset the added nose weight. Ya pays yer money and takes yer choice. But to me this was a no brainer = and I'd go with 321 again if I were doing it today. Oh, and I'll dispute the claim that Burns gets there bends from the = source Kevin cited. I went to Burns shop when I bought all of my bends = and I saw their mandrel bender in action. Mike ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Lendich=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: renesis stock exhaust flange Jeff/ Mike, Yep 321 is the best. A neighbour worked at an airport exhaust shop, = they used 321SS exclusively, however they made their own bends out of = flat - I guess there's a trick to it. When I enquired about a price, = their base price is $1,000.00 - a bit expensive I thought. So I decided = that I could go up a bit in thickness and go to what ever bends were = available i.e. 316, 304. I guess it's down to the individual -Ed's had no problem with the = thicker ( other) SS =20 I know which way I'm going - the cost effective way. George ( down under) I thought that the recommended material for rotary engine exhaust = parts was 321 stainless. Is 304 OK to use? I thought the temp rating = for 321 was higher (like 1500F)? =20 Please correct me if I have incorrect info. =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of kevin lane Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 11:31 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] renesis stock exhaust flange =20 I didn't come across this fact in the archives and thought I'd pass = it on. the stock exhaust flanges appear to be made from powdered metal. = when you attempt to weld to them the base metal breaks off very easily. = I was going to modify the stock exhaust, then was talked into a new = header, using the original flanges. it's only money. better to break = on the workbench, no? I ordered a new 304 flange from ed klepis today. = BTW, Columbia River Mandrel Bending supplies Burns with parts and costs = 1/3 to 1/2 the price, plus sells schedule 10 tubing & elbows [.090 wall] = as well. they have been good to deal with. = http://www.mandrel-bends.com/catalog/contact-us.html kevin =20 interesting to watch mandrel bending. they pull this "chain" of = brass doughnuts thru the tube while bending it. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01CA6496.B18FE530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Actually Inconel is probably best. I'll = grant you=20 that 304 will work (if you go heavy enough) and that its cheaper. = Taken to=20 an extreme you could follow Mazda's example and use cast = iron.
 
As an example a 1 3/4" x .065" 304 U = bend from=20 Burns is about $50 it weighs 2.34#. The same (more or less) bend from = Kevin's=20 source is clearly a bargain at about $20. Or you could go with Burns 321 = with=20 .032" wall for about $50, same price as their heavier 304. The 321 piece = weighs1.28#. That's just one example chosen at random - others may show = more or=20 less difference in price.
 
I guess the bottom line is that you are = either=20 going to pay extra $ or extra #. I'd guess going with 321 over 304 might = have=20 cost me an extra $200. And I probably saved at least 5 pounds in = exhaust=20 system weight. The weight saved is actually significantly greater = because I'd=20 have ended up adding tail weight to offset the added nose = weight.
 
Ya pays yer money and takes yer choice. = But to me=20 this was a no brainer and I'd go with 321 again if I were doing it=20 today.
 
Oh, and I'll dispute the claim that = Burns gets=20 there bends from the source Kevin cited. I went to Burns shop when I = bought all=20 of my bends and I saw their mandrel bender in action.
 
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 George=20 Lendich
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 = 4:01=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = renesis stock=20 exhaust flange

 Jeff/ Mike,
Yep 321 is the best. A neighbour = worked at=20 an airport exhaust shop, they used 321SS exclusively, however = they made=20 their own bends out of flat - I guess there's a trick to it. When I = enquired=20 about a price, their base price is $1,000.00 - a bit expensive I = thought. So I=20 decided that I could go up a bit in thickness and go to what ever = bends were=20 available i.e. 316, 304.
 
I guess it's down to the individual = -Ed's had no=20 problem with the thicker ( other) SS  
 
I know which way I'm going - the cost = effective=20 way.
George ( down under)

I thought = that the=20 recommended material for rotary engine exhaust parts was 321=20 stainless.  Is 304 OK to use?  I thought the temp rating = for 321=20 was higher (like 1500F)?

 

Please = correct me=20 if I have incorrect info.

 

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of kevin lane
Sent: Friday, November 13, = 2009=20 11:31
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] renesis = stock=20 exhaust flange

 

I didn't = come across=20 this fact in the archives and thought I'd pass it on.  the = stock=20 exhaust flanges appear to be made from powdered metal.  when = you=20 attempt to weld to them the base metal breaks off very easily.  = I was=20 going to modify the stock exhaust, then was talked into a new = header, using=20 the original flanges.  it's only money.  better to break = on the=20 workbench, no?  I ordered a new 304 flange from ed klepis = today. =20 BTW, Columbia River Mandrel Bending supplies Burns with parts and = costs 1/3=20 to 1/2 the price, plus sells schedule 10 tubing & = elbows [.090=20 wall] as well.  they have been good to deal with.   = http://www.= mandrel-bends.com/catalog/contact-us.html    =20 kevin

 

interesting = to watch=20 mandrel bending.  they pull this "chain" of brass doughnuts = thru the=20 tube while bending=20 it.

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