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Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:47:53 -0500
Message-ID: <5cf132c0909100547h24e2c745k3ae1fb7f465d00c7@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] cooling plumbing design [right?, right?, right? :-) ]
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Kevin,

I'll try to answer some of your questions, as it relates to my cooling
system design.

"if the expansion tank was plumbed into the water pump inlet port, then a
second circulation route is created, "
While the entire system is pressurized, the inlet to the water pump is the
lowest pressure of the entire cooling system.  My system has a line
coming from the bottom of the swirl tank (below water level) that is
connected to the water pump inlet.  Feeding into the swirl tank is a line
coming from the upper corner of the radiator, where air would collect.
While you could also connect this line to the port on the rear housing, I
didn't feel it was needed with a nose-dragger a/c.  Since the radiator is at
a higher pressure than the pump inlet, water, and air bubbles, flow through
the line into the swirl tank where the air is separated from the coolant.

This system won't work with inverted flight.  ;-)

Mark S.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:02 AM, kevin lane <n3773@comcast.net> wrote:

>  I was embarrassed to ask about this originally, but it seems I am not
> alone with questions.  having viewed several flying cooling system flow
> designs at the rotary round-up, perhaps it isn't that critical.
>   one aspect I trying to understand is the expansion tank.  there shouldn't
> a big flow thru there, right?  if the pressure is greatest at this far rotor
> housing top port, then it must be lower in the expansion tank, and a slow
> flow will take place towards the expansion tank, right?  the small diameter
> line will tend to push bubbles thru and they will separate in the expansion
> tank. so, if they enter the tank above water level, this line will suck air
> from the expansion tank as the cooling fluid cools and has a lesser volume,
> right? not good.   if the expansion tank feeds the cooling circulation
> system by T'ing into the water pump output, then it is all on the higher
> pressure side of the system, and the air in the expansion tank won't have a
> tendency to be sucked into the circulation?  is the design intention to keep
> the expansion tank under pressure, rather than have it part of the flow
> [circulation]?    if the expansion tank was plumbed into the water pump
> inlet port, then a second circulation route is created, which doesn't
> involved the radiator [rear rotor port to tank to water pump, thru engine
> block to rear port....], right?
> as far as the bubble line for the radiator it seems that it would work by
> allowing trapped bubbles in the higher end of the radiator to travel uphill
> to the expansion tank.  is the pressure at the radiator also higher, as with
> the rear port?
> enough questions.  clear as mud, right?   kevin
>

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<div>Kevin, </div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>I&#39;ll try to answer some of your questions, as it relates to my coo=
ling system design.=A0 </div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div><font color=3D"#3333ff">&quot;if the expansion tank was plumbed into t=
he water pump inlet port, then a second circulation route is created, &quot=
;<br></font></div>
<div>While the entire system is pressurized, the inlet to the water pump is=
 the lowest pressure of the entire cooling system.=A0=A0My system=A0has a l=
ine coming=A0from the bottom of the swirl tank=A0(below water level) that i=
s connected to the water pump inlet.=A0 Feeding into the swirl tank is a li=
ne coming from the upper corner of the radiator, where air would collect.=
=A0 While you could also connect this line to the port on the rear housing,=
 I didn&#39;t feel it was needed with a nose-dragger a/c.=A0 Since the radi=
ator is at a higher pressure than the pump inlet, water, and air bubbles,=
=A0flow through the line into the swirl tank=A0where the air is separated=
=A0from the coolant.=A0 </div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>This system won&#39;t work with inverted flight.=A0 ;-)</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Mark S.=A0=A0</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:02 AM, kevin lane <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:n3773@comcast.net">n3773@comcast.net</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
<div><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I was embarrassed to ask about this origi=
nally, but it seems I am not alone with questions.=A0 having viewed several=
 flying cooling system flow designs at the rotary round-up, perhaps it isn&=
#39;t that critical.</font></div>

<div><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS">=A0 one aspect I trying to understand is =
the expansion tank.=A0 there shouldn&#39;t a big flow thru there, right?=A0=
 if the pressure is greatest at this far rotor housing top port, then it mu=
st be lower in the expansion tank, and a slow flow will take place towards =
the expansion tank,=A0right?=A0 the small diameter line will tend to push b=
ubbles thru and they will separate in the expansion tank.=A0so, if they ent=
er the tank above water level, this line will suck=A0air from the expansion=
 tank as the cooling fluid cools and has a lesser volume, right?=A0not good=
. =A0 if the expansion tank feeds the cooling circulation system by T&#39;i=
ng into the water pump output, then it is all on the higher pressure side o=
f the system, and the air in the expansion tank won&#39;t have a tendency t=
o be sucked into the circulation?=A0 is the design intention to keep the ex=
pansion tank under pressure, rather than have it part of the flow [circulat=
ion]?=A0=A0=A0 if the expansion tank was plumbed into the water pump inlet =
port, then a second circulation route is created, which doesn&#39;t involve=
d the radiator [rear rotor port to tank to water pump, thru engine block to=
 rear port....], right?</font></div>

<div><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS">as far as the bubble line for the radiato=
r it seems that it would work by allowing trapped bubbles in the higher end=
 of the radiator to travel uphill to the expansion tank.=A0 is the pressure=
 at the radiator also higher, as with the rear port?</font></div>

<div><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS">enough questions.=A0 clear as mud, right?=
=A0=A0 kevin</font></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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