X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from lincoln.lisco.com ([69.18.32.37] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3820309 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 08:01:07 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.18.32.37; envelope-from=rob@mum.edu Received: from DELL919SZF1 (76-76-233-100.lisco.net [76.76.233.100]) by lincoln.lisco.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 090162BF02 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:00:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <6D8EC18AF3E843D4AC1DAE05DDE7165E@DELL919SZF1> Reply-To: "Rob" From: "Rob" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Tubeing for engine mount Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:00:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0058_01CA222D.0F17C850" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01CA222D.0F17C850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Al for your input. Do you remember the wall thickness of the 5/8 = tubes by any chance. Also I think I remember that you had someone make = your intake manifold. If that is true could I hire him to make one for = me? If so, what was his name and number? Robert Bollinger MR722 MUM Fairfield IA 52557 (641)472-7000 ex2068 (641)919-3213 cell rob@mum.edu ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:52 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Diff Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis Robert; I adapted the Velocity factory mount for the Franklin 220 hp for my NA = 20B. It uses 5/8" dia. 4130 tube for the mount, and it has proven to be = fine. The additional hp adds a bit of stress, but is small compared to = the jolts of hard landings, and I had a few of those in the early going. = The thrust loads from the prop are likely not going to be more than = about 800 lbs. Of course it is all dependant on good mount design, but with that = anything over =BE" would be overkill. The mount I have is a 'bed' type, = which supports the engine off the front cover and rear housing (see at = my web site http://members.cox.net/alg3/airplane.htm; and take the link = to the 'Rotary Engine' at the left). Al G -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Robert Bollinger Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:36 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Diff Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis Does anyone have any suggestions about tubing size for my 300hp 20B? I = have made several mounts for my Ford V6 in my BD4. That has given me = lots of experience making mounts for up to 200hp. But what about 300hp? = Any thoughts would be appreciated. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Rob wrote: I'm about to begin building my engine mount for my 20B on my BD4. I'm = using a bed mounting plate like Tracys mount. What size 4130 tubing does = everyone recoment that I use? I have a lot of 3/4x.049 tubing in stock. = Would that be ok or should I use something larger diameter? Any = suggestions? Robert Robert Bollinger MR722 MUM Fairfield IA 52557 (641)472-7000 ex2068 (641)919-3213 cell rob@mum.edu ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Lendich=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 10:38 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Diff Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis Bryan, Yep! that's what I've heard as well. George (down under) George, The side seal tolerances are many times greater than the = traditional seals. Plus they have a "keystone" shape to them. I have = heard that many racers use the longer seals in an attempt to close that = gap. Bryan -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Diff Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis Bryan and Jeff, I have spoken to a number of people about the Renensis and they = all tell me that none of the compression seal sizes( lengths) completely = seal against blow-by, hence the need for the extra O-ring type seal in = the rotor sides.=20 There are a number of lengths available and it has been suggest to = me to use the longest, as at our usage, as compared to racing, their = never going to reach their maximum length. Their length is governed by = the fact that their being more exposed the exhaust heat, because of the = side exhausts. It's my feeling that that little cut away in the exhaust = side ( of the rotor) makes them even more exposed. I hope that makes sense. George (down under) Jeff, The grooves for the outer water jackets are in the rotor = housings vice the side housings. The rotors have an additional outer ring. Some of the = tolerances are not in the DVD due to the fact that these components are = unique to the Renesis. I can get those to you if you decide on the Renesis. Otherwise, = pretty much the same. Bryan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Luckey Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 12:56 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Diff Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis I just watched Bruce Turrentine's video on how to rebuild a gen = 2 13B. (Pretty good video considering it was done by one guy and a = tripod - and the price was sure right, $30 delivered.) I'm considering using a Renesis and was wondering if there are = any significant differences or gotchas between the 2 engines that I need = to know about. Also, I've been looking for the Shop Manual for a 2004 = Renesis/RX-8 and found a couple on EBay. The actual printed manuals = cost anywhere from $100-200, but there seem to be electronic versions of = these manuals available for <$20. Has anyone used the electronic = versions - likes or dislikes? Given the choice among publishers like Haynes, Chilton, or = Mazda, which is best? I would tend to go w/ Mazda but sometimes Japanese = manuals can loose something in translation. Thanks, Jeff Luckey ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01CA222D.0F17C850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Al for your input. Do you = remember the wall=20 thickness of the 5/8 tubes by any chance. Also I think I remember that = you had=20 someone make your intake manifold. If that is true could I hire him to = make one=20 for me? If so, what was his name and number?
 
Robert Bollinger
MR722 MUM
Fairfield IA = 52557
(641)472-7000=20 ex2068
(641)919-3213 cell
rob@mum.edu
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Al = Gietzen=20
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 = 9:52=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Diff = Betw Late=20 Model 13B & Renesis

Robert;

 

I adapted = the=20 Velocity factory = mount for=20 the Franklin 220 hp = for my NA=20 20B.  It uses 5/8=94 dia. 4130 tube for the mount, and it has = proven to be=20 fine.  The additional hp adds a bit of stress, but is small = compared to=20 the jolts of hard landings, and I had a few of those in the early = going. =20 The thrust loads from the prop are likely not going to be more than = about 800=20 lbs.

 

Of course = it is all=20 dependant on good mount design, but with that anything over =BE=94 = would be=20 overkill.  The mount I have is a =91bed=92 type, which supports = the engine=20 off the front cover and rear housing (see at my web site http://members.cox.net/= alg3/airplane.htm;=20 and take the link to the =91Rotary=20 Engine=92 at = the=20 left).

 

Al=20 G

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Robert = Bollinger
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 = 5:36=20 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Diff Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis

 

Does anyone have any suggestions about = tubing size for=20 my 300hp 20B? I have made several mounts for my Ford V6 in my BD4. = That has=20 given me lots of experience making mounts for up to 200hp. But what = about=20 300hp? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

On Tue, Aug = 18, 2009 at=20 10:44 AM, Rob <rob@mum.edu>=20 wrote:

I'm about to begin = building my=20 engine mount for my 20B on my BD4. I'm using a bed mounting plate like = Tracys=20 mount. What size 4130 tubing does everyone recoment that I use? I have = a lot=20 of 3/4x.049 tubing in stock. Would that be ok or should I use = something larger=20 diameter? Any suggestions?

Robert

 

Robert = Bollinger
MR722=20 MUM
Fairfield IA 52557
(641)472-7000 ex2068
(641)919-3213 = cell
rob@mum.edu

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: George Lendich

To: Rotary motors in aircraft =

Sent: Sunday,=20 August 16, 2009 10:38 PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Diff Betw Late Model 13B &=20 Renesis

 

Bryan,

Yep! that's what I've = heard as=20 well.

George (down=20 under)

George,

The = side seal=20 tolerances are many times greater than the traditional seals. =  Plus=20 they have a =93keystone=94 shape to them.  I have heard that = many racers=20 use the longer seals in an attempt to close that = gap.

Bryan

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George=20 Lendich
Sent: = Sunday,=20 August 16, 2009 5:35 PM
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Diff Betw Late Model 13B &=20 Renesis

 

Bryan and=20 Jeff,

I have spoken to a = number of=20 people about the Renensis and they all tell me that none of the=20 compression seal sizes( lengths) completely seal against blow-by, = hence=20 the need for the extra O-ring type seal in the rotor sides.=20

 

There are a number = of lengths=20 available and it has been suggest to me to use the longest, as at = our=20 usage, as compared to racing,  their never going to reach = their=20 maximum length. Their length is governed by the fact = that their being=20 more exposed the exhaust heat, because of the side exhausts. It's = my=20 feeling that that little cut away in the exhaust side ( of the = rotor)=20 makes them even more exposed.

 

I hope that makes=20 sense.

George (down=20 under)

 Jeff,

The = grooves for=20 the outer water jackets are in the rotor housings vice the side=20 housings.

The = rotors have=20 an additional outer ring.  Some of the tolerances are not = in the=20 DVD due to the fact that these components are unique to the=20 Renesis.

I can = get those=20 to you if you decide on the Renesis.  Otherwise, pretty = much the=20 same.

Bryan

 

 

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff=20 Luckey
Sent: = Sunday,=20 August 16, 2009 12:56 PM
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Diff Betw Late Model 13B &=20 Renesis

 

I just watched = Bruce=20 Turrentine=92s video on how to rebuild a gen 2 13B.  = (Pretty good=20 video considering it was done by one guy and a tripod =96 and = the price=20 was sure right, $30 delivered.)

 

I=92m considering = using a=20 Renesis and was wondering if there are any significant = differences or=20 gotchas between the 2 engines that I need to know=20 about.

 

Also, I=92ve been = looking for=20 the Shop Manual for a 2004 Renesis/RX-8 and found a couple on=20 EBay.  The actual printed manuals cost anywhere from = $100-200, but=20 there seem to be electronic versions of these manuals available = for=20 <$20.  Has anyone used the electronic versions =96 likes = or=20 dislikes?

 

Given the choice = among=20 publishers like Haynes, Chilton, or Mazda, which is best? I = would tend=20 to go w/ Mazda but sometimes Japanese manuals can loose = something in=20 translation.

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Jeff=20 Luckey

 

=

 

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