X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao103.cox.net ([68.230.241.43] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3820052 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:52:50 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.43; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao103.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20090821015216.JNGY11920.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:52:16 -0400 Received: from BigAl ([72.192.133.78]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id WpsF1c0071hf1Cg04psFoX; Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:52:15 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9UJDoX-1hXIA:10 a=jnoIveapAAAA:20 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=Hl1Gy0H5AAAA:8 a=uNCxPqq6P2J74ojhWYgA:9 a=u15q0-QcWTrnm7eMxIgA:7 a=6NV6nyh4XFHH_9QzevQmJznnfWoA:4 a=IplYkR0A5a8A:10 a=9M3DAB5Bs7sA:10 a=r6q2PTTcqAMA:10 a=c95Y75WW8wkA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=b3sdetQJwe-i-Clb:21 a=1x0-yS9d6j2mFXcv:21 a=9CrM1lT9qWtRrEse33gA:9 a=mOpqzbj3hj9Fq3tJms4A:7 a=8wCzjcyG3B4KBnwszBJdxm15SrIA:4 a=qgmDf-86SEsZYCzl:21 a=30wp7cA4YQ7IoVOc:21 X-CM-Score: 0.00 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Diff Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:52:58 -0800 Message-ID: <03DB6469F4B1448D90A441DC5DFD6E05@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA21C7.6F4A0190" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6838 Importance: Normal Thread-Index: Acoh/8WonNu3wRT6T3SRxiVs21X5lQACLOkg In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA21C7.6F4A0190 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert; =20 I adapted the Velocity factory mount for the Franklin 220 hp for my NA = 20B. It uses 5/8=94 dia. 4130 tube for the mount, and it has proven to be = fine. The additional hp adds a bit of stress, but is small compared to the = jolts of hard landings, and I had a few of those in the early going. The = thrust loads from the prop are likely not going to be more than about 800 lbs. =20 Of course it is all dependant on good mount design, but with that = anything over =BE=94 would be overkill. The mount I have is a =91bed=92 type, = which supports the engine off the front cover and rear housing (see at my web site http://members.cox.net/alg3/airplane.htm; and take the link to the = =91Rotary Engine=92 at the left). =20 Al G =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Robert Bollinger Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:36 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Diff Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis =20 Does anyone have any suggestions about tubing size for my 300hp 20B? I = have made several mounts for my Ford V6 in my BD4. That has given me lots of experience making mounts for up to 200hp. But what about 300hp? Any = thoughts would be appreciated. On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Rob wrote: I'm about to begin building my engine mount for my 20B on my BD4. I'm = using a bed mounting plate like Tracys mount. What size 4130 tubing does = everyone recoment that I use? I have a lot of 3/4x.049 tubing in stock. Would = that be ok or should I use something larger diameter? Any suggestions? Robert =20 Robert Bollinger MR722 MUM Fairfield IA 52557 (641)472-7000 ex2068 (641)919-3213 cell rob@mum.edu ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Lendich=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 10:38 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Diff Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis =20 Bryan, Yep! that's what I've heard as well. George (down under) George, The side seal tolerances are many times greater than the traditional = seals. Plus they have a =93keystone=94 shape to them. I have heard that many = racers use the longer seals in an attempt to close that gap. Bryan =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Diff Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis =20 Bryan and Jeff, I have spoken to a number of people about the Renensis and they all tell = me that none of the compression seal sizes( lengths) completely seal = against blow-by, hence the need for the extra O-ring type seal in the rotor = sides.=20 =20 There are a number of lengths available and it has been suggest to me to = use the longest, as at our usage, as compared to racing, their never going = to reach their maximum length. Their length is governed by the fact that = their being more exposed the exhaust heat, because of the side exhausts. It's = my feeling that that little cut away in the exhaust side ( of the rotor) = makes them even more exposed. =20 I hope that makes sense. George (down under) Jeff, The grooves for the outer water jackets are in the rotor housings vice = the side housings. The rotors have an additional outer ring. Some of the tolerances are = not in the DVD due to the fact that these components are unique to the Renesis. I can get those to you if you decide on the Renesis. Otherwise, pretty = much the same. Bryan =20 =20 =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Luckey Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 12:56 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Diff Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis =20 I just watched Bruce Turrentine=92s video on how to rebuild a gen 2 13B. (Pretty good video considering it was done by one guy and a tripod =96 = and the price was sure right, $30 delivered.) =20 I=92m considering using a Renesis and was wondering if there are any significant differences or gotchas between the 2 engines that I need to = know about. =20 Also, I=92ve been looking for the Shop Manual for a 2004 Renesis/RX-8 = and found a couple on EBay. The actual printed manuals cost anywhere from $100-200, but there seem to be electronic versions of these manuals available for <$20. Has anyone used the electronic versions =96 likes = or dislikes? =20 Given the choice among publishers like Haynes, Chilton, or Mazda, which = is best? I would tend to go w/ Mazda but sometimes Japanese manuals can = loose something in translation. =20 Thanks, =20 =20 =20 Jeff Luckey =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA21C7.6F4A0190 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Robert;

 

I adapted the Velocity factory mount = for the Franklin 220 hp for my NA 20B. =A0It uses 5/8” dia. 4130 tube for the mount, = and it has proven to be fine. =A0The additional hp adds a bit of stress, but is = small compared to the jolts of hard landings, and I had a few of those in the = early going.=A0 The thrust loads from the prop are likely not going to be more = than about 800 lbs.

 

Of course it is all dependant on = good mount design, but with that anything over =BE” would be = overkill.=A0 The mount I have is a ‘bed’ type, which supports the engine off the = front cover and rear housing (see at my web site http://members.cox.net/= alg3/airplane.htm; and take the link to the ‘Rotary Engine’ at the = left).

 

Al G

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Robert Bollinger
Sent: Thursday, August = 20, 2009 5:36 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Diff Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis

 

Does anyone have any suggestions about tubing size for my 300hp 20B? I have = made several mounts for my Ford V6 in my BD4. That has given me lots of = experience making mounts for up to 200hp. But what about 300hp? Any thoughts would = be appreciated.

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Rob <rob@mum.edu> wrote:

I'm about to begin building = my engine mount for my 20B on my BD4. I'm using a bed mounting plate like = Tracys mount. What size 4130 tubing does everyone recoment that I use? I have a = lot of 3/4x.049 tubing in stock. Would that be ok or should I use something = larger diameter? Any suggestions?

Robert

 

Robert Bollinger
MR722 MUM
Fairfield IA 52557
(641)472-7000 ex2068
(641)919-3213 cell
rob@mum.edu

=

----- Original Message = -----

To:<= /font> Rotary motors in aircraft =

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 10:38 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Diff Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis

 

Bryan,

Yep! that's what I've heard = as well.

George (down = under)

=

George,

The side seal = tolerances are many times greater than the traditional seals.  Plus they have = a “keystone” shape to them.  I have heard that many = racers use the longer seals in an attempt to close that gap.

Bryan

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich
Sent: Sunday, August 16, = 2009 5:35 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Diff Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis

 

Bryan and Jeff,

I have spoken to a number of people about the Renensis and they all tell me that none of the compression seal sizes( = lengths) completely seal against blow-by, hence the need for the extra O-ring = type seal in the rotor sides.

 

There are a number of lengths available and it = has been suggest to me to use the longest, as at our usage, as compared to racing,  their never going to reach their maximum length. Their = length is governed by the fact that their being more exposed the exhaust = heat, because of the side exhausts. It's my feeling that that little cut away = in the exhaust side ( of the rotor) makes them even more = exposed.

 

I hope that makes sense.

George (down under)

 Jeff,

The grooves for = the outer water jackets are in the rotor housings vice the side = housings.

The rotors have = an additional outer ring.  Some of the tolerances are not in the DVD = due to the fact that these components are unique to the = Renesis.

I can get those = to you if you decide on the Renesis.  Otherwise, pretty much the = same.

Bryan

 

 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Luckey
Sent: Sunday, August 16, = 2009 12:56 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Diff = Betw Late Model 13B & Renesis

 

I just watched Bruce Turrentine’s video = on how to rebuild a gen 2 13B.  (Pretty good video considering it was done = by one guy and a tripod – and the price was sure right, $30 = delivered.)

 

I’m considering using a Renesis and was wondering if there are any significant differences or gotchas between = the 2 engines that I need to know about.

 

Also, I’ve been looking for the Shop = Manual for a 2004 Renesis/RX-8 and found a couple on EBay.  The actual printed manuals cost anywhere from $100-200, but there seem to be electronic = versions of these manuals available for <$20.  Has anyone used the = electronic versions – likes or dislikes?

 

Given the choice among publishers like Haynes, Chilton, or Mazda, which is best? I would tend to go w/ Mazda but = sometimes Japanese manuals can loose something in translation.

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Jeff Luckey

 

 

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